We're Bottom of the League and Your No

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Liviforever

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We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Liviforever on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:36 am

Can't buy a goal let alone a win just now, desperate stuff.

Wasn't much in it till HT against Hibs, both were pretty poor, but we are dire in the final 3rd and keep playing the long ball shite and it is going to relegate us.

Gave away a cheap goal which didn't help, with DJ dropping the ball for Hibs to prod in, had one cleared of their line too before they got their 2nd, and the ref gave a dodgy pen with their player either tripping over his own feet or diving, looked a dive to me as he was past the ball and on his way down before he even got to Sives legs. Bottom line is we need to score to at least put some pressure on the opposition, and in turn effect their play and give us some confidence and momentum in a game too.

The Falkirk game on Tues is massive for us, a win would get us off the bottom and level points with Falkirk who are in 6th place, have no idea how the feck we'll get it though as we haven't scored a goal in our last 4 league games. Before that we hit 4 against Alloa and weren't having any problems scoring, hopefully this is just one of those bad patches teams have in a season and we'll come out of it SOOONNNNNNNNNNNNN, if not we're fecked.
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Smithy

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Smithy on Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:34 am

We have played Aberdeen,Hearts  Rangers and Hibs in these games too that we have not scored. Not making excuses but they are not your normal second yier opposition.

However we were well in the game until a slack aimless ball forward by Keaghan was picked up by a Hibs defender and we never touched the ball again until DJ dropped it and a goal was gifted to them.

We can't keep on giving gifts like this away as we have conceded far too many goals easily this has to be remedied first of all. We have Gallagher and to a lesser extent Mensing out,as he has not been available all season but losing Gallagher has been immense. We have a transfer embargo so the manager is stuck with who we have so as someone said before I feel a bit sorry for him.

I thought Burchill,White,Glen and Talbot were pass marks yesterday. dj really has to have a look at himself as his mistakes are costing us momentum in games. That was a bad mistake yesterday and if you give the big three gifts like that you will be punished. make no mistake we were well in the game but that mistake gave Hibs a massive lift.

Also feel for Kyle as he is moved all over the place and it looks to be affecting his game. Some people are saying the long ball up to White is costing us ,we'll if the ball reached him it would be a start its the aimless balls that don't work really.We have a big guy who can hold the ball in bring others into the game very good with his feet and yet we starve him of the ball , he was coming back into a midfield position yesterday trying to get the ball he must be one frustrated guy playing in this team.

I think we need to try Robertson on the park and give him a run of games. Don't really know what our best formation is at all, I'm just a bit bemused by it all because I had high hopes for this season after watching some pre season games and the early games v Queens and Hearts but it's not good really.

Must admit that I thought lexi Collector was well over the top in his comments regarding fight and guts in the team but now I'm not so sure as when the going gets tough too many seem to hide.

We have played the big three and Aberdeen recently so it's been a tough schedule so,let's see where we are next Saturday night after the next two normal games.
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EdinburghLivi
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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by EdinburghLivi on Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:56 pm

The problems stem from the utterly shite defence. The team can't be as attacking as they might want to be throughout the game because they know that when the defence isn't protected, we will concede goals.

I have more than enough confidence that when Mensing and Gallagher come back, we will improve immensely but until then we need a contingency plan in place and that means removing the deadwood from the team. I said against Aberdeen that Fordyce and Sives were rank rotten together and they've continued to play shit since then and need emptied from the team ASAP.

Provided Donaldson isn't back (will he ever play?), I'd start with the following defence on Saturday.

Moffat Ky. Jacobs Talbot Rutherford

It might seem like a simplistic argument but when you have players consistently playing shite in the first team, what message does this give to the young players? Talbot and Kyle Jacobs were outstanding against Rangers so, in my opinion, would be a lot better option at the back and give us a degree of pace.

For the record, Jordan White's position in the team should be under question as well given he's done absolutely nothing in the last few games. I'd consider Mullen and Glen up top or even Ogleby who despite protestations has hardly had a run in the team.

Also, why not give Beaumont, Praprotnik and Robertson a decent run in the team?

For me, McGlynn needs to be brave against Queen of the South and use his squad for me to keep any degree of confidence. Stubborn management pisses me off immensely and when you're struggling (admittedly against good teams but playing absolutely terrible) it is not the time to be close minded.
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Afro

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Afro on Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:22 pm

Smithy wrote:We have played Aberdeen,Hearts  Rangers and Hibs in these games too that we have not scored. Not making excuses but they are not your normal second yier opposition.

However we were well in the game until a slack aimless ball forward by Keaghan was picked up by a Hibs defender and we never touched the ball again until DJ dropped it and a goal was gifted to them.

We can't keep on giving gifts like this away as we have conceded far too many goals easily this has to be remedied first of all. We have Gallagher and to a lesser extent Mensing out,as he has not been available all season but losing Gallagher has been immense. We have a transfer embargo so the manager is stuck with who we have so as someone said before I feel a bit sorry for him.

I thought Burchill,White,Glen and Talbot were pass marks yesterday. dj really has to have a look at himself as his mistakes are costing us momentum in games. That was a bad mistake yesterday and if you give the big three gifts like that you will be punished. make no mistake we were well in the game but that mistake gave Hibs a massive lift.

Also feel for Kyle as he is moved all over the place and it looks to be affecting his game. Some people are saying the long ball up to White is costing us ,we'll if the ball reached him it would be a start its the aimless balls that don't work really.We have a big guy who can hold the ball in bring others into the game very good with his feet and yet we starve him of the ball , he was coming back into a midfield position yesterday trying to get the ball he must be one frustrated guy playing in this team.

I think we need to try Robertson on the park and give him a run of games. Don't really know what our best formation is at all, I'm just a bit bemused by it all because I had high hopes for this season after watching some pre season games and the early games v Queens and Hearts but it's not good really.

Must admit that I thought lexi Collector was well over the top in his comments regarding fight and guts in the team but now I'm not so sure as when the going gets tough too many seem to hide.

We have played the big three and Aberdeen recently so it's been a tough schedule so,let's see where we are next Saturday night after the next two normal games.

Some good points there Smithy but I disagree with your points re: the teams we've had to play the past few weeks. I can understand getting a tanking by Aberdeen in the cup, they're one of the top sides in the country, and by all accounts we gave a decent account of ourselves before giving up the ghost after the second goal. However, the excuse that Rangers, Hearts and Hibs aren't your normal second-tier opposition doesn't wash with me. Hearts are on a fantastic run and I don't think any of us expected anything from the game, but the performance we put in was thoroughly unacceptable. McGlynn's tactical choices in the game were utterly bizarre as well, as many pointed out at the time. Yes, Rangers and Hibs have infinitely larger resources than ourselves and on paper far better players - but we've saw time and time again with the both of them that teams who are "lesser" (and I use that term lightly given our current position) have given them a game and got positive results. In both of the games, the game yesterday more so, we never looked like threatening them except one or two chances per game. When you consider that part-time teams Dumbarton and Alloa have both taken points from Hibs and Rangers respectively this season, you have to ask why a full-time outfit with apparent greater resources and a more "professional" infrastructure (I'd contest that) can't give either of them a game.

EdinburghLivi wrote:The problems stem from the utterly shite defence. The team can't be as attacking as they might want to be throughout the game because they know that when the defence isn't protected, we will concede goals.

I have more than enough confidence that when Mensing and Gallagher come back, we will improve immensely but until then we need a contingency plan in place and that means removing the deadwood from the team. I said against Aberdeen that Fordyce and Sives were rank rotten together and they've continued to play shit since then and need emptied from the team ASAP.

Provided Donaldson isn't back (will he ever play?), I'd start with the following defence on Saturday.

Moffat Ky. Jacobs Talbot Rutherford

It might seem like a simplistic argument but when you have players consistently playing shite in the first team, what message does this give to the young players? Talbot and Kyle Jacobs were outstanding against Rangers so, in my opinion, would be a lot better option at the back and give us a degree of pace.

For the record, Jordan White's position in the team should be under question as well given he's done absolutely nothing in the last few games. I'd consider Mullen and Glen up top or even Ogleby who despite protestations has hardly had a run in the team.

Also, why not give Beaumont, Praprotnik and Robertson a decent run in the team?

For me, McGlynn needs to be brave against Queen of the South and use his squad for me to keep any degree of confidence. Stubborn management pisses me off immensely and when you're struggling (admittedly against good teams but playing absolutely terrible) it is not the time to be close minded.

I agree with you there EL regarding the defence. I think it was yourself who's been fairly critical of Fordyce's suitability for this level of football - before I'd have argued the point but now I have to agree with you. I'd be inclined to say it's because he's playing next to very similar player in Sives, but he looks out of his depth, even against teams outwith the big three of this league. Sives himself is a fucking bombscare, too. The loss of Gallagher looks to be monumental for us, I just hope we're not adrift at the bottom end of the table by the time he returns. The same goes for Mensing - I really hope he's not regressed since his injury.

McGlynn's persistence with certain players is really, really infuriating. I've yet to be impressed with McKenna tbh, he sticks out like a sore thumb out on the right hand side, and he actually looks like a Junior player in a Championship side. I feel sorry for White, everyone on here knows he's an effective player when he gets the ball played to his feet, but McGlynn's tactics seem to be high balls all the time. There's been a few occasions the past few games where we've put together some neat passages of passing play and they've either led to chances which we've pissed away, or Glen's goal against Stranraer.

He either has to change the style of play, because it's blatantly not working, or change the personnel. I'm not sure the latter would work anyway, so he has to adapt. If he doesn't do it quickly, we'll be in serious trouble.
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Lexi Collector
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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Lexi Collector on Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:47 pm

Don't know about you, but I'm not really looking forward to playing Brechin and Stenhousemuir next season. I don't gamble, but if I did, I'd place a tidy sum on us to get relegated. Was saying to a Falkirk fan yesterday afternoon that I reckon we'd go down through the play-offs, but having witnessed that yesterday I think it'll be automatic relegation. I'm not being hysterical or anything, I'm just calling it as I see it. Look at how other teams have done in their home games against Hibs, they've been held to a lot of draws, but they absolutely murdered us yesterday and it was all through our own doing.

I'm starting to believe that relegation might be a good thing for us, you know. Just rip everything up and start all over again. Get all the players who's contracts expire out. Go part-time if need be (makes sense from a financial point of view). But above all, unless McGlynn changes things, and starts solving such obvious errors, then he needs to be forced out. We can't afford to sack him, so the supporters need to try and force him out. He's proving himself to be an absolutely awful manager, as all of them have been under this board, other than the 2 they fucking sacked.

We have nothing. No pace, no direction, no energy, no sense or game plan. Passing is woeful, there's no connection between the midfield and attack. Our only efforts come from corners or free-kicks, which almost always go laughably wrong. Our winger put crosses into the box from some truly bizarre angles, usually about 10 miles away from the penalty box, and almost never beat the first man. The defending is all over the place, you've got Fordyce, Sives, Kyle and O'Brien all making hospital passes in and just outside our defensive penalty area. I'm sorry to say it, and I'll probably get shot down here, but DJ is a very average 'keeper. For every brilliant save, he'll make 1 or 2 truly shocking areas, and doesn't seem to be able to communicate with his defense.

It's the Scottish Championship, not the Champions League. Play 4-4-2 with Hips and White up top from the first whistle. I saw Hips very very briefly outside the ground last night, and the boy shat himself when he saw me walking towards him (I don't look intimidating at all). Just told him he should start every game, and his response was 'I know mate, it's obvious' - too fucking right. Why does he always come on for the final 20? McGlynn does this every week, and it always achieves absolutely nothing. Fucking start the boy, or just get rid of him. Get the fucking wingers working on their crosses. Get the midfield to pass the ball about, without looking like an uneasy wreck, and whenever a pass is directed at someone more than 5 yards away, don't have the ball end up Sainsbury's car park.

It's so frustrating to watch some football which is so glaringly obviously wrong. I was absolutely furious yesterday. Angriest I've ever been at a football match. If anyone sits in B3, the little fanny with a parka swearing and moaning for 90 minutes was me. There were some boos at FT yesterday, which was nice to hear, as Livi fans NEVER boo the team off the park (which deserves a lot of respect), but if we lose to QOS next week, I sincerely hope the boos are a lot louder. I know we have the cheapest season tickets in the league, but fuck me. At least give us some kind of value for money.

I'm not even surprised this is happening, tbh. I told you all weeks ago this mob were no good, but was roundly shot down. I know a fucking horrendous team when I see one.
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Liviforever

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Liviforever on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:05 pm

Smithy wrote:We have played Aberdeen,Hearts  Rangers and Hibs in these games too that we have not scored. Not making excuses but they are not your normal second yier opposition.

However we were well in the game until a slack aimless ball forward by Keaghan was picked up by a Hibs defender and we never touched the ball again until DJ dropped it and a goal was gifted to them.

We can't keep on giving gifts like this away as we have conceded far too many goals easily this has to be remedied first of all. We have Gallagher and to a lesser extent Mensing out,as he has not been available all season but losing Gallagher has been immense. We have a transfer embargo so the manager is stuck with who we have so as someone said before I feel a bit sorry for him.

I thought Burchill,White,Glen and Talbot were pass marks yesterday. dj really has to have a look at himself as his mistakes are costing us momentum in games. That was a bad mistake yesterday and if you give the big three gifts like that you will be punished. make no mistake we were well in the game but that mistake gave Hibs a massive lift.

Also feel for Kyle as he is moved all over the place and it looks to be affecting his game. Some people are saying the long ball up to White is costing us ,we'll if the ball reached him it would be a start its the aimless balls that don't work really.We have a big guy who can hold the ball in bring others into the game very good with his feet and yet we starve him of the ball , he was coming back into a midfield position yesterday trying to get the ball he must be one frustrated guy playing in this team.

I think we need to try Robertson on the park and give him a run of games. Don't really know what our best formation is at all, I'm just a bit bemused by it all because I had high hopes for this season after watching some pre season games and the early games v Queens and Hearts but it's not good really.

Must admit that I thought lexi Collector was well over the top in his comments regarding fight and guts in the team but now I'm not so sure as when the going gets tough too many seem to hide.

We have played the big three and Aberdeen recently so it's been a tough schedule so,let's see where we are next Saturday night after the next two normal games.

I was sticking to league games because it's even worse when you include Aberdeen and the only goal we've scored in 6 games was against a team in a league below us and it took penalties to beat them.

Sevco and Hearts may be big teams but other teams in this league can score and take points off them, we can't even score to exert pressure on them, Hibs are nothing special but they took us apart bit by bit due to us giving them a cheap goal and as you say, giving them a lift. We wont get anything from a game unless we put pressure on teams, not even Dumbarton, who eventually got a goal due to us not scoring when we were on top.

Much of this is due to tactics, the long ball is just giving away possession, as you also mentioned our passing is terrible, even when we have a move on through midfield we give away possession with a slack pass. I don't think White can bring the ball into himself either, against Hibs his first touch to cushion the ball was terrible, he was bang centre of the 18 yard box with nobody marking him and his cushioned effort took the ball away from goal and the chance to bring it in turn and shoot had gone. He needs ball to feet and we need to be getting in our opponents box, he hit a good patch and then has had nothing, imo that's because he's had no service inside the box.

Falkirk are not having a great season either so this is a game we should be takng something, no excuses. QoS will be tough, imo they're better than Hibs and have players back fit now, they'll be better than when we played them earlier but their defence still looks suspect, they'll score 2 or 3 goals in games though so unless we score 3 or 4 we'll get humped silly.

We had fight in us earlier in the season, against QoS we came from behind, but that was when we were scoring goals, the players must be thinking the same as the fans just now, when we go a goal behind you immediately wonder how we'll get back in the game because we can't score, that must deflate them as their confidence must be rock bottom.
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Liviforever

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Liviforever on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:20 pm

Lexi, McGlynn brings Hippo on for the last 20 mins every week because in a couple of cup games it worked and he's stuck with it ever since. Hippo has done feck all since though and like other players that are below par, needs a fecking run of games to start. Too much chop and change recently, Hippo gets a start, doesn't score gets hooked, punted back to the last 20 mins, give him 3 or 4 starts and see what he can do.

I'd also play Mullen against all the teams outside the big 3, he's got faults but he gets more time against lesser teams (or at least will get away with losing possession) and will either improve or punt him, but get him the experience to see if he learns and improves, don't just consign him to the bench and have him sit there all game. I'm critical of Mullen when his awareness leaves a lot to be desired but tbh we haven't anyone better that will put in a shift and get on the ball as much as him to create chances in the box.

Ogleby is absolutely dreadful, no touch, can't shoot on target, looks completely out of it, possibly because he is basically a stranger to everyone on the pitch and has no understanding with anyone. Just haven't been impressed with him the 3 or 4 times I've seen him play. My heart sank when I saw him coming on yesterday.
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LiviCub

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by LiviCub on Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:52 pm

As I've stated in my post from the Hibs match, if we continue to be in the form that we're currently in, then McGlynn should go and inevitably install Burchill as manager.

I have to question why he's only selecting the same 12/13 players every game and I agree with EL that the likes of Robertson, Propratinik and Beaumont should be given a chance. If the manager isn't going to select them then what's the point having them here in the first place? We've also lost our identity of bringing through players from the youth team. I understand that we don't have an U-19s team and the Reserves is mostly our underused first team squad but Bollan was sacked for playing more 'graduates' than McGlynn currently is. With a background such as his with the experience of being a youth coach at Hearts and being forced to bring through the talent when he was first team manager, I'm disappointed that he hasn't brought this knowledge to our club.

Not the squad but the TEAM in it's entirety from the coaches to the players need to get the finger out and sort this mess out from team selection to tactics. They need to understand that we're in relegation form and that could easily put the club out of business if the worst case scenario happens. The next nine league games will determine who's willing to roll their sleeves up and who doesn't give a flying fuck about who or what they've playing for.
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Liviforever

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Liviforever on Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:31 pm

I think we all know the Bollan sacking had nothing to do with the "not playing youth" excuse Nixon came out with, it was a clash of personalities and Nixon wanted rid. Just one of many great decisions Nixon made to get us to where we are now, screwed.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:19 pm

Yep, eating humble pie for having shot Lexi down previously. Genuinely thought he was being overly critical but right now the proof of the pudding is there for all to see & a right bunch of puddings this lot are starting to look...including the Baldy Moyes in the dugout.

OK we are in the Mickey Mouse Cup final but if it is the mob from Glasgow then I have no doubt they will run up 5 or 6 in April, if its Alloa or East Fife we might just sneak it on pens but more likely will capitulate as by then we will probably be consigned to the relegation play-offs at best.
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Liviforever

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Liviforever on Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:02 pm

Bertie Bassett wrote:Yep, eating humble pie for having shot Lexi down previously. Genuinely thought he was being overly critical but right now the proof of the pudding is there for all to see & a right bunch of puddings this lot are starting to look...including the Baldy Moyes in the dugout.

OK we are in the Mickey Mouse Cup final but if it is the mob from Glasgow then I have no doubt they will run up 5 or 6 in April, if its Alloa or East Fife we might just sneak it on pens but more likely will capitulate as by then we will probably be consigned to the relegation play-offs at best.

Might be the first final where both teams go bust before it's played.


Think I read our hearing was today, well Rankine's hearing to see what punishment Livi get for his dodgy dealings.
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Lexi Collector
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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Lexi Collector on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:08 pm

One of my mates was absolutely buzzing last night that we moved off the bottom of the table.

Simpleton.
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Liviforever

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Liviforever on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:35 pm

Cowden and Alloa will be playing us soon, those are the games that are must wins or we'll def be relegation favourites. Hopefully goals will come against poorer teams too and get some confidence going.
As much as it was painfully bad passing last night the point and clean sheet was much needed to give us something to build on. Constantly losing games has obv made the players very nervous looking and their passing has gone to feck.

I'd take another eye bleeding performance against Queens to grab another point then a win against Alloa. It's desperate stuff just now, points over performance is what counts. We need to show some fight though, get stuck in about these feckers and scrap for the points.
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Smithy

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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by Smithy on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:23 pm

Liviforever wrote:Cowden and Alloa will be playing us soon, those are the games that are must wins or we'll def be relegation favourites. Hopefully goals will come against poorer teams too and get some confidence going.
As much as it was painfully bad passing last night the point and clean sheet was much needed to give us something to build on. Constantly losing games has obv made the players very nervous looking and their passing has gone to feck.

I'd take another eye bleeding performance against Queens to grab another point then a win against Alloa. It's desperate stuff just now, points over performance is what counts. We need to show some fight though, get stuck in about these feckers and scrap for the points.
A lot of sense in your post mate. A point last night was massive for us and could change our season.
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EdinburghLivi
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Re: We're Bottom of the League and Your No

Post by EdinburghLivi on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:40 pm

Off the bottom and out the relegation zone, panic over...

Hopefully we take a bit of confidence from it after the hammerings and bounce back on Saturday. Good to see Mensing back in the squad as well.

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