Patter relating to the Raif game

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Durnford

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Durnford on Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:16 pm

Liviforever wrote:Raith's 2nd goal was further out and with more players around him than ibra's chance, had to hit it first time too with it moving across him, imo Ibra had an easier shot from closer range.

Big difference from Riordan to Jordan, the former has played and scored at a higher level than the Championship, it was a step up for Jordan playing here, Riordan has already proven himself as a goal scorer at any level in Scottish football. He's wasted his talent but he still has ability in him. Wouldn't be my choice as a long term signing with his history off field, but would sign him to dig us out a hole.

We signed a player who apparently isn't fit to play so looks like we've money we can afford to waste, doubt Riordan would cost much if he's playing as a trialist for EF, Rankine is prob contributing to his wages anyway. Wink

I'm not sure if Cole was signed on an appearance only arrangement. We Know Riordan has already turned down an offer from Brechan despite all the hype of willing to play for free bounced in the daily rag a few months back.

Would disagree about Raith's second goal as well; I felt t he guy had loads of time and space with the ball falling perfectly for him. Having watched it again on LiviTV I can't actually remember the last time we had such an opportunity fall to us - probably academic but, having missed the Hearts game, I can't actually remember the last time I saw us score without looking it up but I've an awful suspicion that it could be the Mensing OG.
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Liviforever

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Liviforever on Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:25 pm

Durnford wrote:
Liviforever wrote:Raith's 2nd goal was further out and with more players around him than ibra's chance, had to hit it first time too with it moving across him, imo Ibra had an easier shot from closer range.

Big difference from Riordan to Jordan, the former has played and scored at a higher level than the Championship, it was a step up for Jordan playing here, Riordan has already proven himself as a goal scorer at any level in Scottish football. He's wasted his talent but he still has ability in him. Wouldn't be my choice as a long term signing with his history off field, but would sign him to dig us out a hole.

We signed a player who apparently isn't fit to play so looks like we've money we can afford to waste, doubt Riordan would cost much if he's playing as a trialist for EF, Rankine is prob contributing to his wages anyway. Wink

I'm not sure if Cole was signed on an appearance only arrangement. We Know Riordan has already turned down an offer from Brechan despite all the hype of willing to play for free bounced in the daily rag a few months back.

Would disagree about Raith's second goal as well; I felt t he guy had loads of time and space with the ball falling perfectly for him. Having watched it again on LiviTV I can't actually remember the last time we had such an opportunity fall to us - probably academic but, having missed the Hearts game, I can't actually remember the last time I saw us score without looking it up but I've an awful suspicion that it could be the Mensing OG.

I think we've had plenty chances like that to shoot, we just don't take them, and instead pass it to someone. Keaghan's against Dumbarton was one of the few occasions we actually took the shot on and he scored a belter of a goal. The reaction shots in the box is the kind we've mostly missed and that's why I was hoping we'd sign a player who has been around at a higher level and still has the ability to score those type of goals. Was hoping Scotland would sign for us as he can also score from outside the box, so can Riordan, he has a good shot on him.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Bertie Bassett on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:44 pm

Durnford wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:Ibra wide open in front of goal hits it straight at the keeper. Hippo clear shot at goal hits it straight at the keeper. Hippo rises unchallenged to head off target. White shoots from outside the box almost as far wide that it would have missed a second set of goals adjacent to the existing ones. Passing the ball about in the box without getting a shot away. We created chances we just didn't take them. Meanwhile an experienced striker that we apparently had been allowing to train with us & used as a trialist in development games scored on his debut for East Fife (Dislike Riordan intensely but he is/was talented) - and before you say East Fife are 2 divisions below us, I wouldn't fancy our chances against them at the moment!

Bit unfair on Sekajja; it was hardly an "open goal" as you put it; he'd just won the ball of a defender, the defender was in the process of tacking him and he(sekajja) had the barest moment to shoot. It was at an angle with an approaching goalkeeper - hardly an open goal. He could have taken a moment to line it up but would probably have ended up getting robbed and receiving dogs abuse from the West Stand as a result.

As for East Fife being in the second division; wasn't Jordan White in the Second Division with Stirling Albion when he scored 38 goals from 77 consecutive appearances? On that basis we already have an experienced goal-scorer?

That being said we don't have the money to sign anyone at the moment, McDougall has already virtually bankrupt himself and we have no other revenue streams until the new season so its all a bit academic.

Don't quote me then misquote me when you try make your point.... I didn't say anything about Ibra missing an open goal!

White is an experienced goal scorer at a lower level; his total for the season isn't outstanding but isn't too bad but as hardly anyone else is scoring the pressure to score is perhaps too much for him at the moment - something that wouldn't affect a player with top level (for Scotland anyway) experience as much.

And if we can't afford to sign an experienced goalscorer why have we signed a defender that isn't fit enough to play? Mismanagement or what?

Durnford

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Durnford on Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:47 am

Bertie Bassett wrote:Don't quote me then misquote me when you try make your point.... I didn't say anything about Ibra missing an open goal!

White is an experienced goal scorer at a lower level; his total for the season isn't outstanding but isn't too bad but as hardly anyone else is scoring the pressure to score is perhaps too much for him at the moment - something that wouldn't affect a player with top level (for Scotland anyway) experience as much.

And if we can't afford to sign an experienced goalscorer why have we signed a defender that isn't fit enough to play? Mismanagement or what?

With respect Bertie; you stated Ibra was wide open in front of goal; how is anyone meant to interpret that other than a wide open goal; he was under immediate pressure from the defender he's just won the ball from so I'm at a loss how that could have been interpreted differently?

plenty of players at the top level have suffered a goal drought and loss of confidence; we've had our share with Nathan Lowndes; Eugine Dadi; Derek Lilley and many others; even Iain Russell had his loss of confidence moments but maybe you meant something different

Yes we've signed defender lacking fitness (although I'm unsure of the terms; as it such a short contract it could well be limited to appearance money which maybe why he wasn't on the bench on Saturday) to replace Mensing. Now you want us to sign another striker lacking match fitness with no money? As previously mentioned Riordan has already turned down a contract with Brechin so he's probably not going to be cheap.

Five minutes ago people were bleating about how we needed to strengthen the defence and stop leaking goals; now the focus is changing to scoring goals (despite the fact that we shipped two easy goals down to poor goalkeeping on Saturday)

Finances aside I would have been in favour of getting Riordan on an appearance money only contract but doubt he would have accepted that even if we had offered it. The fact that he managed only two games for Alloa last season (failing to score in both appearances) despite being on their books for several months would worry me about signing him on any permanent type arrangement.

With the loss of the current board and Rankin walking away I imagine current focus will be to reduce costs and expenditure to a minimum. Previously it would have been hoped that we would win against Raith and be within 3 points of the other two sides (i.e. with a good chance of avoiding the drop). Don't know if its right but I get the feeling that the thoughts of who we have left in the boardroom is that demotion is now likely (bordering almost certain) rather than a possibility; if that's the case then McDougall in particular won't be throwing any more of his own money after bad. As a club we are already seriously restricted by the overheads we already have (stadium etc.) but with no money to move elsewhere options are distinctly limited.

We've had no shortages of mismanagement issues over our history but the choice of signing an unfit defender instead of an unfit striker wasn't one of them

Durnford

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Durnford on Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:48 am

And another thing (expecting to be shot down in flames here) but I would really expect Burchill to be starting a game in midfield as the team captain that way he can direct the team as he sees fit and cant blame anyone else if the team are demotivated.

Even if Talbot is fit for the next game the left back position is not the best for club captain; a central midfield is by far the best position to lead a side

Just a thought

Livi2IDie

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Livi2IDie on Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:06 pm

Now you've lost it Durnford! Lol

Play Burchill is one thing when I guarantee he's slightly off the pace to start a game soon but to play him in midfield is a cry of desperation - suppose that's how bad it's got.

In relation to strikers we could have Messi, Ronaldo or Zlatan Ibrahimovic upfront and they still wouldn't get a pass from our hesitant players, not from Mullen anyway, that what some people on here can't grasp, we create jack shit in most games.

The Darren Cole signing is strange when he's a few weeks away from any kind of fitness.

I'm no rocket scientist but when your 0-2 down at home in a must win game, with 20 minutes to go why would you take any striker off?!? For me even although Mullen was having a stinker I wouldn't of even taken him off, a defender should of been sacrificed for Glen to try to get a draw surely because I guarantee if we had scored we would of got a few chances to equalise and Raith would of crumbled. That was the luckiest 3 points they will pick up all season IMO because they weren't even better than us (that's saying something) they just hit us on two counter attacks.

I seen Sives wondering upfront also out of positon without the management saying much about it on Saturday, I seen Danny run into players time after time and not a word said, playing Juniors I would of got hooked and slapped about for that lol. It's time they got a grip and started playing the correct team and coaching in the correct way to play to our strengths (which is pass and move and get down the wings) which IMO is simple, he's a hit and a miss but would play McKenna wide right to get service into the box, where we would get more joy.

I could go through the full team on Saturday but I won't, I'll just pick a few players from Saturday's performance that I think didn't actually have bad games but are key players.

I've already noted my disgust of Nejc Praprotnik - beyond useless - the less said about him the better.

Now these are players that didn't really have their best or worst games on Saturday it's just wee things I noticed:

DJ I really rate as a keeper and no doubt the DJ fan club will defend him to the hill but that's now a few times this season he's cost us the first goal in games this season, seems to struggle with shots across him but he needs to concentrate more than ever in this run in because sure as shit the defense isn't helping him out much in games, don't get me wrong some of the reaction saves are top notch but going behind in games is crucial and preventable goals need to be stopped if possible. Apart from this pretty solid game but he'll need to be the hero against Hibs will be dealing with a lot more shots on goal!

Talbot as captain runs about like headless chicken at times but because the leadership isn't coming from the management he needs to step up, he makes great attacking runs forward at times but his end ball is shit but he's a solid enough defender and as our captain I believe he needs to take more responsibility and show more leadership on the park and communicate more to the younger players. He had a run on Saturday and had plenty of players in front of him and tries to shoot with his weaker right foot and it was miles wide - in this instance show more composure Jason apart from that a solid game.

Declan Gallagher - one of our better performers this season but even although he defended ok on Saturday his distribution was poor he just lumped it aimlessly on Saturday wtf was that all about.

Keaghan - great link up first half, more creative from wide right in first half but died of death the second half.

White - won everything in the air first half & good link up play & good touches, like Keags died of death second half and needs to be more selfish and shoot more from outside the box like his shot against Hearts at Tynecastle.

The 4 mentioned above are the spine of our team, others didn't perform on Saturday we need to play as a team and win draw and lose as a team, on Saturday it was clear we aren't a fucking team!

I would of actually given the above 4 players pass marks on Saturday IMO, the only 4 starters to get pass marks.

McKenna from the bench easily gets pass marks too, I think he surprised us all with a right back performance and had an excellent half - unlucky not to score.

The fact we aren't playing as a team Is down to the management, players are just playing as individuals no team on Saturday was like a fucking trial game and those players hadn't played with each other before - fucking embarrassing!

What annoys us all is we play well against Hearts twice and then play that shite against shite Raith on Saturday, I tell you one thing the first half wasn't shite at all, we somehow were 0-2 down but anybody with footballing intelligence could actually see we were the better team but we booed the players off at HT magic, I appreciate more than anybody the frustration we needed the points but obviously that didn't help as the second half was dire!

Taking our most experienced player off and leaving one of least experienced players on in midfield couldn't of helped team morale either as well as taking a live wire in Ibra off when we are 0-2 down doesn't help the cause.


Burchy & Hopkin - step it up or step aside!


Last edited by Livi2IDie on Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:24 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : additional)
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Liviforever

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Liviforever on Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:41 pm

White winning everything in the air is something i never thought I'd see in a sentence, he jumps and mostly falls forward onto the ground looking for a foul, the odd occasion he gets his head on the ball it gets flicked onto an opposition player as he's up front himself with nobody playing off him.

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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Bertie Bassett on Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:01 pm

Durnford wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:Don't quote me then misquote me when you try make your point.... I didn't say anything about Ibra missing an open goal!

White is an experienced goal scorer at a lower level; his total for the season isn't outstanding but isn't too bad but as hardly anyone else is scoring the pressure to score is perhaps too much for him at the moment - something that wouldn't affect a player with top level (for Scotland anyway) experience as much.

And if we can't afford to sign an experienced goalscorer why have we signed a defender that isn't fit enough to play? Mismanagement or what?

With respect Bertie; you stated Ibra was wide open in front of goal; how is anyone meant to interpret that other than a wide open goal; he was under immediate pressure from the defender he's just won the ball from so I'm at a loss how that could have been interpreted differently?

plenty of players at the top level have suffered a goal drought and loss of confidence; we've had our share with Nathan Lowndes; Eugine Dadi; Derek Lilley and many others; even Iain Russell had his loss of confidence moments  but maybe you meant something different  

Yes we've signed defender lacking fitness (although I'm unsure of the terms; as it such a short contract it could well be limited to appearance money which maybe why he wasn't on the bench on Saturday) to replace Mensing. Now you want us to sign another striker lacking match fitness with no money? As previously mentioned Riordan has already turned down a contract with Brechin so he's probably not going to be cheap.

Five minutes ago people were bleating about how we needed to strengthen the defence and stop leaking goals; now the focus is changing to scoring goals (despite the fact that we shipped two easy goals down to poor goalkeeping on Saturday)

Finances aside I would have been in favour of getting Riordan on an appearance money only contract but doubt he would have accepted that even if we had offered it. The fact that he managed only two games for Alloa last season (failing to score in both appearances) despite being on their books for several months would worry me about signing him on any permanent type arrangement.

With the loss of the current board and Rankin walking away I imagine current focus will be to reduce costs and expenditure to a minimum. Previously it would have been hoped that we would win against Raith and be within 3 points of the other two sides (i.e. with a good chance of avoiding the drop). Don't know if its right but I get the feeling that the thoughts of who we have left in the boardroom is that demotion is now likely (bordering almost certain) rather than a possibility; if that's the case then McDougall in particular won't be throwing any more of his own money after bad. As a club we are already seriously restricted by the overheads we already have (stadium etc.) but with no money to move elsewhere options are distinctly limited.

We've had no shortages of mismanagement issues over our history but the choice of signing an unfit defender instead of an unfit striker wasn't one of them

Sorry D...but it is perfectly possible to be wide open in front of goal & have 11 men on the line blocking your shot...the player received the ball completely unmarked ergo he was wide open, he could have picked his spot but hit the keeper with it. I have not watched it back as I can't bring myself to suffer it all over again, live on Saturday was enough, so I can't remember how quickly the defender was on him but he got the shot away completely freely & still only hit it at the keeper.

Incidentally, it is also perfectly possible to be heavily marked and yet have an open goal because even the keeper isn't standing between the posts, unusual I grant you but possible nonetheless.

Surely you are not suggesting our players are top quality strikers? I am not in the least bit surprised they are having a goal drought....Ibra's record is 1 CAREER goal, hardly prolific, Hippo had 6 CAREER goals before scoring (4 is it?) for us. White had 6 CAREER goals before going "ape" for Stirling with 28 & 9 for us. Mullen had 7 CAREER goals before this season. Even Burchill only had 81 CAREER goals from 98-Dec '14. (data from Wiki so could be out of date) are you suggesting that these guys have the necessary prowess to be called "experienced strikers"?

Our defence is always hit or miss; even when we were playing well we could leak goals. Everyone thought Mensing & Gallagher would be the answer...they weren't. Sives & Gallagher have looked the best pairing but even they struggle at times. So signing an unfit defender on a short term contract is pointless unless he proves his fitness quickly & shores up the back & contributes to the attack by scoring from set pieces. An experienced striker who is, it appears, gaining match fitness & both scoring & assisting would have been a godsend...

I have the same feeling as you regarding the board's mentality but I would go further, I think the whole club has already accepted defeat on the relegation front...I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

Durnford

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Durnford on Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:04 pm

Bertie Bassett wrote:Surely you are not suggesting our players are top quality strikers? I am not in the least bit surprised they are having a goal drought....Ibra's record is 1 CAREER goal, hardly prolific, Hippo had 6 CAREER goals before scoring (4 is it?) for us. White had 6 CAREER goals before going "ape" for Stirling with 28 & 9 for us. Mullen had 7 CAREER goals before this season. Even Burchill only had 81 CAREER goals from 98-Dec '14. (data from Wiki so could be out of date) are you suggesting that these guys have the necessary prowess to be called "experienced strikers"?

Our defence is always hit or miss; even when we were playing well we could leak goals. Everyone thought Mensing & Gallagher would be the answer...they weren't. Sives & Gallagher have looked the best pairing but even they struggle at times. So signing an unfit defender on a short term contract is pointless unless he proves his fitness quickly & shores up the back & contributes to the attack by scoring from set pieces. An experienced striker who is, it appears, gaining match fitness & both scoring & assisting would have been a godsend...

I have the same feeling as you regarding the board's mentality but I would go further, I think the whole club has already accepted defeat on the relegation front...I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

Not sure I suggested anywhere that our strikers are top quality although Hippolyte and Sekajja have very little first team time. Mullen may develop further but he's got a way to go before he can replace McNulty.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Bertie Bassett on Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:06 pm

You didn't but the inference is there as we are talking about our strikers & you said "plenty of players at the top level have suffered a goal drought"..... obviously I don't think you actually meant that to suggest our strikers are top quality but were simply pointing out that "EVEN plenty of players at the top level etc etc etc" however as you were misquoting & misinterpreting me I thought I'd have a go at it Twisted Evil


Durnford

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

Post by Durnford on Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:41 am

Bertie Bassett wrote:You didn't but the inference is there as we are talking about our strikers & you said "plenty of players at the top level have suffered a goal drought"..... obviously I don't think you actually meant that to suggest our strikers are top quality but were simply pointing out that "EVEN plenty of players at the top level etc etc etc" however as you were misquoting & misinterpreting me I thought I'd have a go at it  Twisted Evil


Whatever!

Suffering severe demotivation at the moment - maybe I should get a job at the club.

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Re: Patter relating to the Raif game

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