Alloa v Livi , why I feel Jordan White must start for us to have a chance of winning game.

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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi , why I feel Jordan White must start for us to have a chance of winning game.

Post by Liviforever on Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:39 pm

Bertie Bassett wrote:
Liviforever wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:Looks to me like there was a clear foul on Mullen in the build up to Alloa's 2nd goal....but we could do with a Buchanan type of player who seems to latch on to anything loose in the box.

And it also looks to me like our 1st equaliser was as a result of White forcing the issue in the box & the ball bouncing in off Gordon for the og

I think the keeper blocks White's shot and it comes back onto Gordon then into the net.

Quite probably but White deserves some credit for getting in and about them to force the issue; he makes something happen & the result is a goal. Too often this season players (White included) have stood about & allowed the opposition to clear without challenging or trying to affect the play.

Yeah and another reason I don't go with stats telling the whole story, Talbot put in the free kick, White got onto the ball (might've had a flick on but can't be arsed checking) and after coming off their keeper and defender it went in as an OG, who gets the assist as it was a combination of several players involved. Agree though would credit White for getting onto it and hiting it towards goal.  Same with our 2nd, Hippo throw ins have led to a few goals but Sives and Gallagher have had to nod/flick them on, or a scramble in the box after a few knock ons.
In another game Burchill scored after Dycey crossed but the best ball leading up to that goal was the long ball up to Dycey from Beaumont, absolute peach of a pass.

So more to how we got goals than a stat saying who scored and who played the last pass for the assist.
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi , why I feel Jordan White must start for us to have a chance of winning game.

Post by Smithy on Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:52 pm

Liviforever wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:
Liviforever wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:Looks to me like there was a clear foul on Mullen in the build up to Alloa's 2nd goal....but we could do with a Buchanan type of player who seems to latch on to anything loose in the box.

And it also looks to me like our 1st equaliser was as a result of White forcing the issue in the box & the ball bouncing in off Gordon for the og

I think the keeper blocks White's shot and it comes back onto Gordon then into the net.

Quite probably but White deserves some credit for getting in and about them to force the issue; he makes something happen & the result is a goal. Too often this season players (White included) have stood about & allowed the opposition to clear without challenging or trying to affect the play.

Yeah and another reason I don't go with stats telling the whole story, Talbot put in the free kick, White got onto the ball (might've had a flick on but can't be arsed checking) and after coming off their keeper and defender it went in as an OG, who gets the assist as it was a combination of several players involved. Agree though would credit White for getting onto it and hiting it towards goal.  Same with our 2nd, Hippo throw ins have led to a few goals but Sives and Gallagher have had to nod/flick them on, or a scramble in the box after a few knock ons.
In another game Burchill scored after Dycey crossed but the best ball leading up to that goal was the long ball up to Dycey from Beaumont, absolute peach of a pass.

So more to how we got goals than a stat saying who scored and who played the last pass for the assist.
Liviforever the person who scores the the goal is the scorer, the person who plays the pass to the person who scores the goal is the person who can claim the assist . Just thought I would clear this up for you.

White cannot claim the assist on Saturday as it came back off the keeper and went in off the defender, that is called an OG and no one can claim an assist from an own goal. White has to be credited as Bertie says tho as if he hadn't tried to chip the keeper who saved it then we would not have got the OG. In another instance Mullen has to take a lot of credit at Ibrox for the great header which hit the post and came back out to hit Ibra who can claim the goal but Mullen can't claim the assist as it came off the post

Absolutely the pass from Beaumont that day v Raith was brilliant ,but if Dycey hadn't crossed the ball then we wouldn't have scored. To score a goal you have to have a final ball to the person who scores the goal. I've often said the pass makes the goal. Everyone has a part to play in a team but please accept the terms scorer and assist.

We have had some great assists this season just off the top of my mind

Kyles cross for White to head home v Hearts
Dyceys cross for Burchill to head home v Raith
Whites cross for Mullen to head home v Raith

All great crosses all great headers , but in every one the cross made the goal.

Please never ever believe the final pass is irrelevant or something to dismiss as only a final pass of a ball.

Probably a contender for goal of the season was Keaghans screamer against Dumbarton, but it only happened because White teed it up with his thigh straight into Keaghans path in what was a quality assist.

How many times do you hear commentators say about a player he lacks the final pass, well the final pass is very important for any team.

So if you don't mind I will just stick to my POV that stats stating the scorer and assists is a very important tool to gaining knowledge about individual players that are important to any football team.
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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi , why I feel Jordan White must start for us to have a chance of winning game.

Post by Liviforever on Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:38 pm

I know all that Smithy but you see my point, stats don't tell the full story and it isn't just about who delivered the final ball to the player that scores. A pish final ball can do the same job as a good one and the guy that sticks it in the net may even have to beat several player and the keeper to score yet all the stat will say is he was assisted by player X.

Even the goals stat is black and white, it just says how many goals over how many games has been played, but the goals to games ratio is also important, I'd rather have a player scoring a goal in every 2 or 3 games than 3 in one game and then nothing for 16 games. I'm not having a go at Jordan here as all our strikers could do with scoring more frequently, or midfielders taking up some of the slack.

That has been one of our problems this season, not having a regular goal scorer.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Alloa v Livi , why I feel Jordan White must start for us to have a chance of winning game.

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:51 pm

Actually I think a player can be credited with an assist if his strike hits the woodwork & someone else knocks it in or if his last touch is the one that immediately results in an og...if not it should.
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi , why I feel Jordan White must start for us to have a chance of winning game.

Post by Smithy on Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:16 pm

It doesn't Bertie
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi , why I feel Jordan White must start for us to have a chance of winning game.

Post by Smithy on Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:46 am

Liviforever wrote:I know all that Smithy but you see my point, stats don't tell the full story and it isn't just about who delivered the final ball to the player that scores. A pish final ball can do the same job as a good one and the guy that sticks it in the net may even have to beat several player and the keeper to score yet all the stat will say is he was assisted by player X.

Even the goals stat is black and white, it just says how many goals over how many games has been played, but the goals to games ratio is also important, I'd rather have a player scoring a goal in every 2 or 3 games than 3 in one game and then nothing for 16 games. I'm not having a go at Jordan here as all our strikers could do with scoring more frequently, or midfielders taking up some of the slack.

That has been one of our problems this season, not having a regular goal scorer.


I maintain we need to make more decent chances to get more goals, just have a think back to our games against Hearts who created loads of chances in their games against us. Keatings missed three chances including a penalty miss before he got another to score against us in our last game at the Vale.

So let's look at the champions and us in bottom place
Hearts top scorer Keatings 11 goals out of Hearts 86 league goals  Keatings has scored 12.7 % of  Hearts goals scored.
Livi top scorer White 9 goals scored out of our 30 league goals. White has scored 30 % of our league goals.
Not a bad return for a non regular scorer.

Mullen has scored 7 goals out of 30 goals which is 23.3% of our league goals

I think LF that you have some mythical Goalscorer in mind when you say we needed a regular Goalscorer mate because when you compare goalscorers in the league White has done very well Having scored 9 out of 30 compared to Keatings 11 out of a massive 86 goals.

Also Hearts have had 19 different goalscorers compared  to our 12. They have had 7 more scorers than us , so that's certainly something we need to consider.

We need to score more goals yes, we need to create more chances some more  
decent assists and more players need to weigh in with some goals.

Just a thought ,I wonder how many goals White and Mullen would have scored playing with a team like Hearts who have scored nearly three times the number of goals we have scored?

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Re: Alloa v Livi , why I feel Jordan White must start for us to have a chance of winning game.

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