Alloa v Livi

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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:19 pm

Smithy, LF's Sheerinlove is based on facts, this season White clearly plays better and statistically is more likely to score with Sheerin beside him. Buchanan has now trebled his goal tally for the season, playing alongside who? Oh, yeah that would be Sheerin, so Buchanan statistically is more likely to score playing alongside Sheerin. You are the resident stato so for you now to suggest the stats don't matter when it comes to Sheerin on the basis that as far as you can see he is overweight is nothing short of fatist.

I remember I big fat lazy git that used to play for Morton but he scored regularly and created goals for others, he was outstanding, Andy Ritchie I think it was.

White and Buchanan have played together already this season and showed no signs of forging a partnership, meanwhile Sheerin and White have done so and now Sheerin and Buchanan have done with even greater effect, the common denominator is Sheerin, those my friend are the facts.

Excellent result today and while most of us have been shouting for Sheerin and White to be the starting two my lad has been saying Sheerin and Buchanan for weeks. In fact he has been suggesting today's line up for weeks, with the obvious exception of McCallum but he has wanted DJ replaced for weeks too. Hopefully we build on this and rip Dumbarton next week too.
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orco

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by orco on Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:36 pm

Bertie Bassett wrote:Smithy, LF's Sheerinlove is based on facts, this season White clearly plays better and statistically is more likely to score with Sheerin beside him. Buchanan has now trebled his goal tally for the season, playing alongside who? Oh, yeah that would be Sheerin, so Buchanan statistically is more likely to score playing alongside Sheerin. You are the resident stato so for you now to suggest the stats don't matter when it comes to Sheerin on the basis that as far as you can see he is overweight is nothing short of fatist.

I remember I big fat lazy git that used to play for Morton but he scored regularly and created goals for others, he was outstanding, Andy Ritchie I think it was.

White and Buchanan have played together already this season and showed no signs of forging a partnership, meanwhile Sheerin and White have done so and now Sheerin and Buchanan have done with even greater effect, the common denominator is Sheerin, those my friend are the facts.

Excellent result today and while most of us have been shouting for Sheerin and White to be the starting two my lad has been saying Sheerin and Buchanan for weeks. In fact he has been suggesting today's line up for weeks, with the obvious exception of McCallum but he has wanted DJ replaced for weeks too. Hopefully we build on this and rip Dumbarton next week too.

Yeh it was Andy Ritchie. He was the opposite of what is regarded as a professional footballer. He was famously lazy, smoked and always on the heavy side but he scored goals for fun for Morton.
Another heavyweight goal scorer was Mark Yardley of St Mirren a number of years ago.
The thing about Sheerin is that partly due to his bulk he can hold off the kind of players that would flatten Mullen and in this league that is useful.
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Smithy on Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:41 pm

Haha guys you missed my point LF was saying we wouldn't have won without Sheerin which is just not true.

Will be back with facts later

Great day tho
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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:11 pm

I believe it is true Smithy, or as I also said at the very best struggled to score and scraped a win, no way would we have cruised to a 3-0 win without Sheerin. A bit rich talking about love ins when you've been in love with White since last season and can't see by him. Laughing

White and Buchanan didn't work earlier in the season, the only combo that works is with Sheerin being one of the two strikers.

Buchanan scored without Sheerin but has struggled in all the other games I've seen him start when he's either just himself up front or with Mullen or White. White has scored all his goals this season when Sheerin came on as sub. It can't be more plain to see that, Sheerin is the main ingredient for either White or Buchanan to score.

I'm not saying he's a better striker than either of them, he has a lot to do before even being up for comparison, but he's the target man that has been needed for both of them to link up with to get goals.

Not bothered now which one starts with him, both will score goals but from every combo we've tried he's been the best strike partner to both of them and he's also knocked in a goal a piece himself with White and Buchanan now too.
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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:18 pm

orco wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:Smithy, LF's Sheerinlove is based on facts, this season White clearly plays better and statistically is more likely to score with Sheerin beside him. Buchanan has now trebled his goal tally for the season, playing alongside who? Oh, yeah that would be Sheerin, so Buchanan statistically is more likely to score playing alongside Sheerin. You are the resident stato so for you now to suggest the stats don't matter when it comes to Sheerin on the basis that as far as you can see he is overweight is nothing short of fatist.

I remember I big fat lazy git that used to play for Morton but he scored regularly and created goals for others, he was outstanding, Andy Ritchie I think it was.

White and Buchanan have played together already this season and showed no signs of forging a partnership, meanwhile Sheerin and White have done so and now Sheerin and Buchanan have done with even greater effect, the common denominator is Sheerin, those my friend are the facts.

Excellent result today and while most of us have been shouting for Sheerin and White to be the starting two my lad has been saying Sheerin and Buchanan for weeks. In fact he has been suggesting today's line up for weeks, with the obvious exception of McCallum but he has wanted DJ replaced for weeks too. Hopefully we build on this and rip Dumbarton next week too.

Yeh it was Andy Ritchie. He was the opposite of what is regarded as a professional footballer. He was famously lazy, smoked and always on the heavy side but he scored goals for fun for Morton.
Another heavyweight goal scorer was Mark Yardley of St Mirren a number of years ago.
The thing about Sheerin is that partly due to his bulk he can hold off the kind of players that would flatten Mullen and in this league that is useful.

Joe 'roll out the barrel' Harper for Aberdeen was another who scored for fun and was a wee fatty.
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Smithy on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:30 pm

LF we beat Alloa last year at the Vale White scored a hat trick

We beat them in the Petrofac,White scored a double

Behave
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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:33 pm

Bertie Bassett wrote:Smithy, LF's Sheerinlove is based on facts, this season White clearly plays better and statistically is more likely to score with Sheerin beside him. Buchanan has now trebled his goal tally for the season, playing alongside who? Oh, yeah that would be Sheerin, so Buchanan statistically is more likely to score playing alongside Sheerin. You are the resident stato so for you now to suggest the stats don't matter when it comes to Sheerin on the basis that as far as you can see he is overweight is nothing short of fatist.

I remember I big fat lazy git that used to play for Morton but he scored regularly and created goals for others, he was outstanding, Andy Ritchie I think it was.

White and Buchanan have played together already this season and showed no signs of forging a partnership, meanwhile Sheerin and White have done so and now Sheerin and Buchanan have done with even greater effect, the common denominator is Sheerin, those my friend are the facts.

Excellent result today and while most of us have been shouting for Sheerin and White to be the starting two my lad has been saying Sheerin and Buchanan for weeks. In fact he has been suggesting today's line up for weeks, with the obvious exception of McCallum but he has wanted DJ replaced for weeks too. Hopefully we build on this and rip Dumbarton next week too.


Correct on all points Bertie.

Buchanan never stops running but he's been needing Sheerin in the middle to play off, his size makes it near impossible to knock him off the ball and he gets the time to pick out a pass for Buchanan or White to run into, he just causes defenders problems because of his strength on the ball.

Tbh I'd rather have had Buchanan subbed today when White came on because neither White or Buchanan came close to scoring when Sheerin left the pitch, but I'd have fancied White to have bagged one if Sheerin had stayed on with him.

I've been banging my head against the cyber wall in frustration that Burchill wasn't seeing this, hallebloodylujah he's seen it now.
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Smithy on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:36 pm

Yeah you are are correct I like White

He was our top scorer last season

He helped the charge to saving our season v Cowdenbeath last season

He was top assists

He is still top scorer in outfield play this season despite limited game time

He is a top player yet Burchill isn't playing him, can't understand it mate.

We have played two up today like you and me have been calling out for but I fear we will lose a good player in White because of Burchill mismanagement of him.


Last edited by Smithy on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:41 pm

Smithy wrote:LF we beat Alloa last year at the Vale White scored a hat trick

We beat them in the Petrofac,White scored a double

Behave

You keep missing the point Smithy, THIS SEASON we're talking about and we've been struggling to score goals with 2 of the top scorers from LAST SEASON until they've paired up with Sheerin.

Go check your stats for how many goals THIS SEASON Buchanan and White have scored playing without Sheerin beside them, look at all the combo's we've tried, Buchanan himself, Buchanan/White, Buchanan/Mullen, White/Mullen.

Just off the top of my head Buchanan scored against St Mirren with Mullen assisting him, that's about it.

White played a lot of minutes without scoring in 3 games then Sheerin came on as sub and White scored all 3 of his goals.

Buchanan scored 2 today with Sheerin.

Doesn't matter a jot how many goals White and Buchanan scored in other seasons, this season they were struggling to score until Sheerin was played up front with one of them.
Sheerin has also scored 2 with White and Buchanan as his partners in different games.

So that's 7 goals in 4 games that has had White/Sheerin & Buchanan/Sheerin front 2 combo's.
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Smithy on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:47 pm

Sheerin has scored two goals one an assist from White.

White has scored three goals one a half assist from Sheerin

Also scored one v Queens assisted by Mullen when Sheerin wasn't on the park.

Buchanan has scored assisted by Mullen when Sheerin wasn't on the park

To say Sheerin is pivotal to our goals is nonsense.

The formation of two up front is the answer

We have four good strikers not just Sheerin as LF seems to think.

Stats will come later as I've had a few beers lol
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Smithy on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:52 pm

Liviforever wrote:
Smithy wrote:LF we beat Alloa last year at the Vale White scored a hat trick

We beat them in the Petrofac,White scored a double

Behave

You keep missing the point Smithy, THIS SEASON we're talking about and we've been struggling to score goals with 2 of the top scorers from LAST SEASON until they've paired up with Sheerin.

Go check your stats for how many goals THIS SEASON Buchanan and White have scored playing without Sheerin beside them, look at all the combo's we've tried, Buchanan himself, Buchanan/White, Buchanan/Mullen, White/Mullen.

Just off the top of my head Buchanan scored against St Mirren with Mullen assisting him, that's about it.

White played a lot of minutes without scoring in 3 games then Sheerin came on as sub and White scored all 3 of his goals.

Buchanan scored 2 today with Sheerin.

Doesn't matter a jot how many goals White and Buchanan scored in other seasons, this season they were struggling to score until Sheerin was played up front with one of them.
Sheerin has also scored 2 with White and Buchanan as his partners in different games.

So that's 7 goals in 4 games that has had White/Sheerin & Buchanan/Sheerin front 2 combo's.
Not true white and Sheerin started at Dumfries

Sheerin was taken off and then White scored

Get your facts right mate
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Smithy on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:57 pm

FFS a blind man can see we have a class player in White
But for some reason our manager doesn't play him, Edinburgh Livi said White was our best player on Tuesday and Sheerin was blowing out of his arse as he was today again after an hour but he preferred him to White.

I just think there must be some sort of fall out between the manager and White As White would have been the first name on my team sheet for today after the Inverness game.

I'm allowed a love in too haha
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LiviLion

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by LiviLion on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:01 am

Smithy wrote:FFS a blind man can see we have a class player in White
But for some reason our manager doesn't play him, Edinburgh Livi said White was our best player on Tuesday and Sheerin was blowing out of his arse as he was today again after an hour but he preferred him to White.

I just think there must be some sort of fall out between the manager and White As White would have been the first name on my team sheet for today after the Inverness game.

I'm allowed a love in too haha

I think you might be missing the point, no one's saying White shouldn't play. But we've played a lot better and look more likely to score when Sheerin's on the pitch.
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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:02 am

Smithy wrote:
Liviforever wrote:
Smithy wrote:LF we beat Alloa last year at the Vale White scored a hat trick

We beat them in the Petrofac,White scored a double

Behave

You keep missing the point Smithy, THIS SEASON we're talking about and we've been struggling to score goals with 2 of the top scorers from LAST SEASON until they've paired up with Sheerin.

Go check your stats for how many goals THIS SEASON Buchanan and White have scored playing without Sheerin beside them, look at all the combo's we've tried, Buchanan himself, Buchanan/White, Buchanan/Mullen, White/Mullen.

Just off the top of my head Buchanan scored against St Mirren with Mullen assisting him, that's about it.

White played a lot of minutes without scoring in 3 games then Sheerin came on as sub and White scored all 3 of his goals.

Buchanan scored 2 today with Sheerin.

Doesn't matter a jot how many goals White and Buchanan scored in other seasons, this season they were struggling to score until Sheerin was played up front with one of them.
Sheerin has also scored 2 with White and Buchanan as his partners in different games.

So that's 7 goals in 4 games that has had White/Sheerin & Buchanan/Sheerin front 2 combo's.
Not true white and Sheerin started at Dumfries

Sheerin was taken off and then White scored

Get your facts right mate


I said off the top of my head, was asking you to give me the stats on it as that's what you like doing. Still waiting on those stats though, pretty confident Sheerin will have been on the pitch when most of Buchanan and White's goals were scored.
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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:06 am

LiviLion wrote:
Smithy wrote:FFS a blind man can see we have a class player in White
But for some reason our manager doesn't play him, Edinburgh Livi said White was our best player on Tuesday and Sheerin was blowing out of his arse as he was today again after an hour but he preferred him to White.

I just think there must be some sort of fall out between the manager and White As White would have been the first name on my team sheet for today after the Inverness game.

I'm allowed a love in too haha

I think you might be missing the point, no one's saying White shouldn't play. But we've played a lot better and look more likely to score when Sheerin's on the pitch.

He's the only one not seeing it LL, the rest of us are. Laughing

I sure as feck wasn't just wanting 2 up front, I was wanting Sheerin to be one of the 2 and I still am. Tbf I thought White and Sheerin looked good in the games I saw them, the Morton one when Sheerin came on changed completely with White and him scoring then Hippo hitting the bar. But today proved Buchanan played well with Sheerin too.

I may be imagining this but was pretty sure Smithy wanted White and Sheerin starting too as the front two, but now he's completely dismissing Sheerin because he has a good game with Buchanan and feels threatened that White wont play up front with Sheerin now. So wants rid of Sheerin so White can start with Buchanan. Laughing


Buchanan and White started a few games together earlier in the season and didn't score a goal between them.
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Smithy on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:51 am

Liviforever wrote:
LiviLion wrote:
Smithy wrote:FFS a blind man can see we have a class player in White
But for some reason our manager doesn't play him, Edinburgh Livi said White was our best player on Tuesday and Sheerin was blowing out of his arse as he was today again after an hour but he preferred him to White.

I just think there must be some sort of fall out between the manager and White As White would have been the first name on my team sheet for today after the Inverness game.

I'm allowed a love in too haha

I think you might be missing the point, no one's saying White shouldn't play. But we've played a lot better and look more likely to score when Sheerin's on the pitch.

He's the only one not seeing it LL, the rest of us are. Laughing

I sure as feck wasn't just wanting 2 up front, I was wanting Sheerin to be one of the 2 and I still am. Tbf I thought White and Sheerin looked good in the games I saw them, the Morton one when Sheerin came on changed completely with White and him scoring then Hippo hitting the bar. But today proved Buchanan played well with Sheerin too.

I may be imagining this but was pretty sure Smithy wanted White and Sheerin starting too as the front two, but now he's completely dismissing Sheerin because he has a good game with Buchanan and feels threatened that White wont play up front with Sheerin now. So wants rid of Sheerin so White can start with Buchanan. Laughing


Buchanan and White started a few games together earlier in the season and didn't score a goal between them.
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Smithy on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:58 am

Will get the stats folks

Off to bed

Great three points

Yes I said Sheerin and White LF

Just thought you went overboard by saying we would mot have won without Sheerin

Pointed out that I was right

However when Buchanan scored we played one up v St Mirren lol

So let's have a wee look when we all sober lol

Cheers

Three points in the bag

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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:55 pm

What is the point of playing two up if they have no semblance of a partnership (White/Buchanan) when you can actually have 2 variations of playing two up that has produced a reasonable return of goals (Sheerin/Buchanan 3 in one game & at the first time of starting as a partnership; Sheerin/White 3 or 4 in a few parts of games, although when they started together against ICT they were unsuccessful in scoring but still looked like they could play together)?

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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:29 pm

Smithy wrote:Will get the stats folks

Off to bed

Great three points

Yes I said Sheerin and White LF

Just thought you went overboard by saying we would mot have won without Sheerin

Pointed out that I was right

However when Buchanan scored we played one up v St Mirren lol

So let's have a wee look when we all sober lol

Cheers

Three points in the bag


Pointed out you were right? Laughing

Best pairing is between Sheerin/White or Sheerin/Buchanan, that's the only argument worth bothering about.

Buchanan & White are the best strikers for scoring goals, Buchanan scored the most between them last season and prob more consistently as White was a bit 3 one game then nothing for 16 but still scored a decent amount over the season. Sheerin however is the best target man for one of them to play off.

I'll throw another idea out there, was actually wondering how all 3 would get on playing in the starting line up, Buchanan doing the Hippo role of just going where he wants and drifting in from the wing, Sheerin in the centre as the target man and White playing just off him.

Buchanan does a lot of running around and covers the pitch from dropping deep to going out to the wing, then got into the box when Sheerin had the ball, he could do all that with White playing too. Also think Buchanan is the only striker out of the 3 who could run from our half and score, as he did yesterday, so gives us an out ball from defending corners and should be on the half way line.

Might be putting all our strikers eggs in the one basket but if we get goals who cares. Still gives us Mullen to come on for one of them 2nd half too though.
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Liviforever

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:45 pm

Oh and worth a mention for our two young full backs that come in for a lot of criticism, one put in a wonderful ball for Sheerin's goal and the other headed the ball off the line just before HT to keep us 1-0 up. Think they deserve praise for yesterdays performance.
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Smithy

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Smithy on Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:15 pm

LF

Apologies for maybe being a wee bit sharp with you,really need to watch the red wine lol.

Great to get the win and have done another wee look at stats cos that's what I do because it makes interesting reading and also gives the facts to back up an argument IMO .

Before I post them I was thinking we have three good strikers who can make and score goals so just like you suggested why not play all three or if Mullen is fit play him too.

The stats would bear this out.

Remember we play Mullen as a wide guy when actually he is a striker we do the same with
Glen and Hippo. however Glen doesn't score goals and hippo has only scored 1

I'm of the opinion borne out by the stats that just as your conclusion play two up and I still feel White and Sheerin should have been given that opportunity yesterday after their performance on Tuesday evening. It's the job of the manager to get the best out of all three players who I feel could all be very valuable for us during the season. Maybe he is going to rotate them which would be ok because they all need a decent amount of game time and up until yesterday White and Sheerin produced more for the mins played than Buchanan who has been given lots more game time and starts.

If we all agree that 442 is the way to go , let's get the best out of the players we have at our disposal.

Stats for the forward players
Games started / game time
Hippolyte 12 starts/ 1065 mins
Buchanan 10 starts /919 mins
Glen 6 starts / 684 mins
Mullen 7 starts / 664 mins
White 6 starts/ 675 mins
Sheerin 3 starts / 330 mins

Goals scored in open play / games started and % ratio
Sheerin 2/3 66%
White 3/6 50%
Mullen 3/7 43%
Buchanan 3/10 30%
Hippolyte 1/12 8%
Glen 0/6 0%

Goals  in open play per mins played
1 goal in mins below
Sheerin  165
Mullen 214
White 225
Buchanan 306
Hippolyte 1003
Glen no goals

So LF I'm with you White and Sheerin as they certainly both deserve more starts and game time and maybe try to play all three with Buchanan on the right or rotate them to keep them all on their toes.

Good position to be in but it needs managed well because we need another three points next week.

Then we have Rangers in our Cup.
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EdinburghLivi
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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by EdinburghLivi on Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:35 am

I can't justify not playing Buchanan. Our most clever striker by a distance.
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orco

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by orco on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:00 pm

EdinburghLivi wrote:I can't justify not playing Buchanan. Our most clever striker by a distance.

Agree.
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Afro

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Afro on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 pm

I've thought for a few weeks now that Sheerin and Buchanan would be a good partnership up front, agree with EL's point about Buchanan's intelligence. He makes so great runs and his finishing is so instinctive, it's something we've been lacking for a while.

Unfortunately Shagz will have to take a seat on the bench at the moment, but he's a tremendous impact player to have. Also room for a lot of variation up front.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Alloa v Livi

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:52 pm

Smithy wrote:Haha guys you missed my point LF was saying we wouldn't have won without Sheerin which is just not true.

Will be back with facts later

Great day tho

You have no facts to prove that we would have won without Sheerin, all you have are stats that suggest we could have won without Sheerin. The facts show that we won with Sheerin.

Would we have won if the starting line-up did not include Sheerin? Maybe, maybe not. We beat them last season without him, we also failed to beat them last season without Sheerin. As much as any of us think we would have won without Sheerin at the weekend it is only opinion and assumption. However the fact of the matter is we won 3-0, Sheerin and Buchanan started, they scored all 3 goals between them and both had a part in to play in 2 of the 3 goals.

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Re: Alloa v Livi

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