Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

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Who would you like to be next manager

[ 1 ]
7% [7%] 
[ 2 ]
14% [14%] 
[ 4 ]
29% [29%] 
[ 0 ]
0% [0%] 
[ 0 ]
0% [0%] 
[ 2 ]
14% [14%] 
[ 1 ]
7% [7%] 
[ 3 ]
21% [21%] 
[ 1 ]
7% [7%] 
[ 0 ]
0% [0%] 

Total Votes: 14
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Smithy

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Smithy on Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:51 am

Cannot believe some of the sympathy for Burchill on Twitter, pie and bovril and forums.

He hasn't got a clue folks, he talks a very good game on the media , but he takes all the praise when we win and blames the players when we lose.

His lack of subs on Saturday and his comments after the game saying we the fans and the players got panicky......see the patter here folks....it's never wee Burchys fault.
His attitude stinks.

I said last year when I did the stats that he was marginally better than McGylns record,check back if anyone has any doubts.

He never knew his best team and to bring Danny Mullen on, a boy who hasn't kicked a ball for weeks being out with injury, and leave Buchanan on the bench. He played Danny up top when before he was on the wing proved he was clueless.

All the plaudits about winning the Petrofac Cup was down to the players and McClynn as Burchy only took the team in the final. Yeah he was the manager when we did the great escape so kudos to him for that.

But surely everybody saw on Saturday that he clearly isn't up to the job.

We had a wee question on this forum a few weeks ago asking how many points could we get out of the next five games, the predicted totals went from 13 ( some lunatic thought they were capable of getting that amount of points....oh that was me ) to the lowest prediction of 5. Well we have played the weakest two teams who are also part time and we have achieved the lofty heights of 1 point.

He had to go , well done to whoever made the decision .


Onwards and upwards
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LiviCub

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by LiviCub on Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:16 am

Some of the sympathisers for Burchill are the ones who probably haven't followed the team since our relegation from the SPL and don't really follow Scottish football at all.

"Aye but I've been to a few Newcastle games" fucking wallopers.

Truth is he's failed his employers expectations from the start of the season when the club publicly came out to say they were aiming to exceed what was predicted from everyone else. Lack of tactical know how; apparent lack of discipline; and at the end of the day, falling short when we were tipped as favourites for a number of games. The occasional draw with Rangers is great, but the makings of a good team are when we're beating the teams near and around us.

Saying that, I think he had a big influence in the signing of some of our betters players: Gibbons, Buchanan, the re-signing of Gallagher, Pittman. For all we know, we could end up with a manager who is only able to sign duffers or rejects (hopefully just not as many as Burchill or McGlynn).


Last edited by LiviCub on Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total

forzalfc

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by forzalfc on Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:27 am

Most of the sympathisers actually seem to be from other clubs who haven't had to witness it every week!
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spiggle

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by spiggle on Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:58 am

I have sympathy for the guy. I watch this team every week and can see how we've played and we've been a hell of a lot better than we were before Burchill took over or have you all forgotten the McGlynn days. I've also followed this team since the Ray Stewart days in the old second division, unlike the Chairman of the Board who is sitting in his fancy house in Michigan making decisions without seeing what is happening.

Here are the facts.

When Burchill took over, we were in the Challenge Cup final and languishing bottom of the league looking poor and destined for the drop.

Last Season, his team pulled off the win and came home with the Challenge Cup. Last Season, his team did the impossible and finished 8th, surviving relegation.

He goes into the off-season under a Transfer Embargo (one so bad that he can't renew contracts). He loses Talbot and Fordyce (both his full-backs). The embargo is lifted mid to late June and he was working in a market where most of the players have signed or are in advanced signing talks.

Added onto this, his wage budget is 40% lower than anywhere else and due to this, he is unable to sign either Jacobs brother as well.

Injury-wise he's been unlucky, he only just got Mullen back from injury and he'd been out for a couple of months, Sives, Cole and Duckrell have all been out for extended periods of time, when you are running a squad of 20 players, to lose a fifth of that squad to injury is tough to recover from. Despite that, the team have only conceded 25 goals in the league and have conceded less than teams like Queen of the South and Morton above them.

We know his tactics weren't perfect, he was still learning. But a young manager needs time to learn the craft and any board worth their salt would have hired an experienced assistance to guide him.

We've not played well over the last couple of weeks, but teams go through that in a season, for a manager to lose his job because Ben Gordon can't pass back to the keeper properly and McCallum can't hold onto a cross is unlucky. If McCallum had held onto that corner on Saturday, Burchill would still be here.

If Burchill had been given the same budget as other teams in the division, we'd be higher up but he wasn't. I also don't see what a new manager coming in can do under the same wage budget, especially with your top defender likely to head back to jail soon.

I think the board should have given him more time, I also think that the board and fans can't expect us to be challenging for a play-off spot when we have a wage budget less than the part-time teams.

In a time we are financially challenged, we have Burchill's wage that we are paying until the end of his contract along with the wage of a new manager. My question is where is this money coming from and why wasn't it used on the playing squad earlier or on an experienced assistant to help Burchill learn his craft.

I don't blame Burchill and have sympathy for him, I think with time, he would have learned the craft and done well.

I fully and wholeheartedly blame the board for where we are at present. The board slashed Burchill's wage budget by 40% and expected unrealistic results based on this. The board have not got their affairs properly in order and this resulted in an embargo which killed our pre-season and the start of our regular season.

The board have now made this decision, so they have to get the next hire right. We've had the young up and coming manager, seemingly this didn't work. What we need is an experienced man to lead the team and we need someone in the job for an extended period of time instead of the upheaval and constant changing of manager.

Personally I'd hire Dick Campbell but knowing our board, it will be someone young and inexperienced like Burton O'Brien or Davie Friggin Weir
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Contemporary

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Contemporary on Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:19 am

spiggle wrote:


We know his tactics weren't perfect, he was still learning. But a young manager needs time to learn the craft and any board worth their salt would have hired an experienced assistance to guide him.


This was something that I'm sure alot of people wanted. It just makes sense, and it would have no doubt helped Burchil's management.
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Liviforever

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Liviforever on Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:41 pm

Spiggle it wasn't just Gordon's 'pass back' that caused the goal, it was Burchill standing there watching us continually passing the ball back and all he did was take off our two holding midfielders to expose our CB's even more. His substitutions and lack of them in our last 2 games is what got him sacked. That and us being 2nd bottom in Dec, and looking like staying there, unless we pulled off another great escape we were going down.

I don't fecking want to be sitting watching us having to struggle every season to stay in a league when we should at least be sitting above Dumbarton and in 8th place. Only winning 1 game at home and the crowd dropping wouldn't have helped either, wouldn't be surprised if that had a big influence in the decision to relieve him of his duties.


At the start I was willing to give him time, in fact I did, when some others had been stating his piss poor record since taking over, I, like you, gave him the some leeway for the embargo during pre season, suspensions to key players and injuries which had him chopping and changing the team every game, but we've a settled team now and the results have dipped again after a wee purple patch of 2 wins and a draw against QoS, Raith & Sevco. What was most worrying was seeing his inaction to sort the tactics, formation out during the game against 2 of the bottom teams, and his substitutions were just bewildering.


I would have been going into our next few games expecting to lose and I am one of the most optimistic Livi fans on here but he's sucked the optimism out of me. In prev games where we lost I always saw signs of us getting things right as we played well in most of those games and little things just didn't quite go our way, against Alloa & Dumbarton we threw 5 points away purely down to how the team was managed. That isn't embargo's or low budgets, or injuries, that's Burchill's fault.
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Achilles

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Achilles on Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:58 pm

"Give him time"


Aye let's give him till the end of the season when we are sent down to League 1 after playing his shambolic style of football with no tactics. 

I don't know how anyone can defend 3 wins in 17, especially defeats to everyone in the league now. 

As spiggle mentioned, he took over us when we were already in the final of the challenge cup, it was a blessing that it was such a shite opposition we played. We would have struggled against anyone else. 

The great escape I'll give him credit for, however when players are playing for their futures they will put more effort in. 

This season has been the worst so far, for me. For the first time ever I'm struggling to think of reasons to go to the football now, because it's generally pathetic. I watched him on Saturday as he stood with his hands in his pockets looking lost. 

It was the first time we have had a full bench in months... And he puts 1 sub on, a half fit Danny Mullen. 

He lost it and his time was up.  

Thanks for your service Burchill.
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Liviforever

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Liviforever on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:04 pm

Actually Achilles, it reminded me of Lambert standing with his arms folded in our first home game after the Hibs debacle, watching him standing with his hands in his pockets when you were looking over hoping for signs of him bringing on Buchanan. Yep, he looked like he just didn't have a clue what to do and was just hoping we'd hold out for the win, that was all he had as a game plan.
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spiggle

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by spiggle on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:09 pm

Liviforever.

I agree that his tactics were wrong, we've seen that. He's inexperienced, he needed someone experienced beside him tactically to assist for games like the last two.

His subs were bewildering, I'm not disagreeing, he should have been given time and at least one transfer window where he didn't start under an embargo.

The manager takes ultimate responsibility for the results, I just think the board were premature in his sacking. Burchill needed help and needed players. I still think he did wonders with the quality of player that he brought in.

I've been thinking about things this morning and I've wondered if the last few months have been a set-up to get rid of Burchill and bring in their own man.

Think about it, the new owner takes over in May, at the point where we've won the Challenge Cup and done the miracle of surviving in the league.

They can't get rid of Burchill then, so what do they do, slash his playing budget and make it difficult for him to achieve their unrealistic expectations.

Watch this, the new manager comes in and mysteriously we get a slew of new signings and our wage budget mysteriously goes up.

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spiggle

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by spiggle on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:15 pm

Oh and before someone has a go for me being blinded by him. I wasn't, I know the man has flaws, his treatment of Duckrell, Hippo and the youth wasn't great. His reluctance to play Buchanan and White together along with the lack of width in his tactics wasn't great. These are thing he could have improved on if he had the right guy beside him to learn from.
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Smithy

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Smithy on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:18 pm

Managerial stats are as follows

McGlynn
Played 58
Won 18 = 31% win ratio

Burchill
Played 45
Won 12 = 27% win ratio

McGlynn
Drawn 13 = 22% draw ratio

Burchill
Drawn 10 = 22% draw ratio


McGlynn
Lost 18 = 47 % loss ratio

Burchill
Lost 27 = 51 % loss ratio

So while I admire Spiggle and his backing for the manager it is the correct decision based on the facts

McGlynn had a better record than Burchill and there wasn't so much bleating when he went


Last edited by Smithy on Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Liviforever

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Liviforever on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:21 pm

Don't know why they'd want rid of him when they offered him a 1 year contract at the start of the season and now have to pay him gardening leave on top of a wage for a new manager.

At Livi though anything is possible. I still don't know anything at all about who is actually running the club (Is Rankine still pulling the strings? ), or what the plan is to get us in a better financial position.

All we've read is about a plastic pitch for a community shared stadium project which has been knocked back by the council until they get shown more information on how it will work.
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Liviforever

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Liviforever on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:25 pm

spiggle wrote:Oh and before someone has a go for me being blinded by him. I wasn't, I know the man has flaws, his treatment of Duckrell, Hippo and the youth wasn't great. His reluctance to play Buchanan and White together along with the lack of width in his tactics wasn't great. These are thing he could have improved on if he had the right guy beside him to learn from.


Yep I'd agree he could've done with an experienced assistant manager like Archie Knox when we had Gough. Don't think Hopkin helped at all and I fear for us against St Mirren if he's in charge till a manager is appointed.
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EdinburghLivi
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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by EdinburghLivi on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:30 pm

Dick Campbell, jesus.
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spiggle

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by spiggle on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:44 pm

EdinburghLivi wrote:Dick Campbell, jesus.

He's not Jesus, just an experienced manager whose managed at all levels. Very Happy

Seriously though, its the experienced route we need to go down, whether its Campbell, Murray or Lennon, we need somebody to steady the sinking ship and be in the post for a few years, not a continual changing of the guard every year.
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Liviforever

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Liviforever on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:48 pm

I think Burchill being inexperienced bought him a bit more leeway with the fans Smithy, plus he at least tried to play football on the deck, although recent games weren't easy on the eyes.

McGlynn was an older guy set in his ways so what we got was never going to change.

Our managerial stats are ridiculous, whole heartedly agree with Spiggle on us having to get the next appointment right, this turnover in managers is beyond a joke.
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spiggle

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by spiggle on Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:53 pm

Smithy wrote:Facts are as follows

McGlynn
Played 58
Won 18 = 31% win ratio

Burchill
Played 45
Won 12 = 27% win ratio

McGlynn
Drawn 13 = 22% draw ratio

Burchill
Drawn 10 = 22% draw ratio


McGlynn
Lost 18 = 47 % loss ratio

Burchill
Lost 27 = 51 % loss ratio

So while I admire Spiggle and his backing for the manager it is the correct decision based on the facts

McGlynn had a better record than Burchill and there wasn't so much bleating when he went

Facts don't lie.

McGlynn's football was so bad that people fell asleep during the game, I was in danger of Hypothermia last year watching us in Grangemouth in that awful midweek 0-0 draw.

I'm just sick of the continual changing of the guard. We need stability and a manager that will be in the job for over a year.

I have sympathy for Burchill because he was a fighter and got us out of the jam before. I still believe that with the right man beside him, he would have been ok.

Our club has become a joke with the continual financial issues and managerial changes. The reason that fans stay away is that whatever board is in charge are always looking for the quick fix and not a long term strategy, plus they have not been shown that any new board can be trusted with their money.

We may not get back a lot of the fans that walked away but we do need some stability and the Michigan Man and his grand plans don't seem to be any better than the previous scheisters that came before them. They need to show the fans that they can be trusted and that this time next year, we're not looking for a new manager again because they haven't invested in the club and provided the appropriate funds for a playing budget of a Championship Full Time side.
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EdinburghLivi
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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by EdinburghLivi on Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:05 pm

Please not Danny Lennon. He's a shite manager and looks like a tramp.

sunderland

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by sunderland on Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:05 pm

It is entirely plausible that we have the lowest budget in the league. i saw a few people saying that because we took Buchanan and Gordon from Alloa that this can't be the case, but Burchil could have given them a decent wage and we are forced to have lower wage players like Sheerin, Millen and Longridge coming in to make up the numbers...

I am also not too sure what the current board are upto, again massive lack of communication as per.
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LiviLion

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by LiviLion on Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:38 pm

Didn't Buchanan say we weren't offering a much bigger wage but it was the chance to return to full time football that made him come here? Might be making the first bit up but certain he said it was full time football he was after.

Anyway, McBookie have Hopkin being favourite, followed by Murray, Lennon and Billy Reid.

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Afro

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Afro on Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:08 pm

The list of names that LiviLion's posted would make you fucking greet. I think the only one I'd take out of all of them would be Billy Reid, given the miraculous job he done in getting Accies (a team with similar-ish crowds as us, with less facilities) into the SPL and producing homegrown first team players worth in excess of a million pounds. Other than that, it's fairly standard fare. If it's Hopkins, then it is utterly pointless having sacked Burchill - what difference does it make, really?

Ian Murray and Danny Lennon are no's from me, unfortunately. Murray did a brilliant job at Dumbarton but their fans widely acknowledge that Jack Ross was behind a lot of the success, and that does make sense given the absolute arse he made of the St Mirren job this season. He'd be like a slightly more experienced Burchill IMO, still needing an experienced assistant to get the necessities right and build on his core management skills (of which there undoubtedly is in Murray's case). Lennon - I'm not so sure. Done a good job at Cowdenbeath and then sorta wound up at St Mirren through that familiar lower-league-manager-wins-title-in-style move up the ladder. Deservedly won the League Cup with them and their fans were 50/50 on whether he should've been punted. Was on a bit of a hiding to nothing with Alloa but I reckon we could and should be doing a lot better in terms of imagination with the next manager.
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Liviforever

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Liviforever on Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:44 pm

Hope Hopkin brings in a decent assistant then, that'll be the next Livi manager after his sacking.

Seriously, can we stop appointing the assistant to take over, just start with a clean slate ffs.

sunderland

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by sunderland on Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:29 pm

I'd take Murray, although that list is horrendous. Terry Butcher? Probably couldn't afford him though..
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Bertie Bassett on Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:14 pm

Can we afford any of them if we can't afford to pay off Burchy...he's now getting paid to put his feet up.
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Liviforever

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Re: Burchill Sacked, Hopkin New Head Coach

Post by Liviforever on Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm

Beats getting paid to stand with his hands in his pockets.

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