Livi v Alloa

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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:56 pm

Agreed, it should never have been him coming on but I was dealin with the fact of him coming on and what happened on the pitch rather than what should have happened from the dug out, that said, a proper substitution would have never given rise to my question in the first place.

Another thing regarding Smithy's stats on Hopkin, his results might be better than Burchy's but last season's run in was far superior to the dross we got yesterday. Having said that, it was a year this coming Saturdsy that we beat Cowdenbeath to spark the escape.

orco

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by orco on Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:37 pm

Was Hopkins not in the stand by the time Knox came on? Might have been a Martindale decision.
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Smithy

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Smithy on Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:54 pm

We did change formation halfway through first half with white going inside to link up with Buchanan,however reverted to three when Sheerin came on by the looks of it.

Of course I was frustrated by the tactics because White was on a roll and should have scored v Alloa had he been given the opportunity.

That said on reflection I think Hopkin first goal was to get Alloa relegated which he achieved.

My view is White is our best option as a centre forward as you say he can play with his back to goal better than others in the team but I think Hopkin sees his defensive qualities against the better teams are better suited on the wide side of left midfield where he played well v St Mirren and Falkirk.

At the minute it's all about points
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:08 pm

The point is that Alloa are NOT one of the better teams and more importantly a win would have relegated them AND helped us... As it is a draw did nothing other than confirm that Alloa are relegated and let's be honest, even if they had beaten us again they would still have gone down in bottom place. So playing to avoid defeat against the worst team in the league was inexcusable, the two points we didn't get could make all the difference at the end of the season.

You're right about one thing, at the minute it's all about points and we should have blasted Alloa out the water yesterday and had 2 more points than we currently have.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:12 pm

orco wrote:Was Hopkins not in the stand by the time Knox came on? Might have been a Martindale decision.

Don't care whose decision it was, it was wrong and for him to walk over and take the free kick was also wrong.
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Smithy

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Smithy on Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:26 pm

Yeah did think that was quite amateurish, basically just trying to tout him as a star player by hopefully scoring with his first kick of the ball.

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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Liviforever on Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:41 pm

I see what Smithy is saying, stats wise we're sitting where we'd want to be after playing Falkirk and Alloa. We'd have all readily accepted 4 points from those 2 games, just would've looked better getting the points the other way around.

Beating Falkirk made our expectations higher and we were looking to take 6 points from those game but 4 points was as good as anything we'd have expected.

I'm still frustrated by Hopkins tactics but it almost worked out for him with Sheerin  getting clean through on goal and the penalty we should've had when he was cynically brought down to stop him scoring. Still think he should've set us out to bombard them and win by a few goals but can see us taking something against Hibs with his frustrating them and counter attack tactics.
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LiviCub

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by LiviCub on Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:52 pm

Sounds desperate, but we have to get three points from somewhere between now and the end of next Saturday. Anything less and Dumbarton will be smoking cigars for their Championship status next season.
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spiggle

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by spiggle on Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:46 am

When I saw that Alan Muir was the ref, I groaned and had a Flashback to the 3-3 draw in 2013 against Queens where the muppet gave them a penalty for "handball" when Donaldson clearly headered the ball with his hands by his side.

Muppet Muir strikes again on Saturday, with Sheeryn clear through on goal and clearly in the penalty box, when he was scythed down, he got the decision spectacularly wrong as did his linesman. That has cost us 2 points and potentially 8th place.

There is a case here for Muir to get his eyes tested as he clearly can't see where a players leg is in relation to a white line and he can't tell the difference between an arm and a head.

Ok, we were poor, so were Alloa and a 0-0 draw should have been the correct result but here we go again, a Scottish Official has a chance to stick it up Livi and he quite successfully does so. Stuff Muir, Stuff the SFA and Stuff Alloa.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:02 pm

You know me LF I always try to play down expectations and while I agree we would have gladly taken 4 from 6 before playing Falkirk, we should have been looking to rake 3 from the Alloa game regardless of the outcome against Falkirk, so playing for a draw at home to the worst team in the league - and IMO that is how we played - is unacceptable and to say relegating Alloa is "job done" is naive in the extreme, they were never going to catch us even if they had beaten us.

And as for Alan Muir - why don't we all write to the SFA/SFPL and why don't Livi TV send the penalty incident footage to the Compliance Officer and the chief referee. And I mean the Donaldson footage as well as the Sheerin footage. This man is not fit to be a referee and I'm not talking about his ability to run and keep up with the play.
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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Liviforever on Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:38 pm

Stick in the trip on Stanton inside the box in the first half too, as I already said, irrespective of Stanton being honest enough to try and stay on his feet and keep going it was still a trip and clear penalty. As was White being pushed in the back before he could head the ball from just outside the 6 yard box a couple of games ago against St Mirren.

We just can't get a break from ref decisions giving us a penalty, supposedly meant to even themselves out right enough, and Alloa had a hand ball claim too so we're maybe only one pen decision down in that game.

I agree with you Bertie, we should've taken 3 points from Alloa, but on a positive note, we lost in the last home game against them so it was an improvement getting a draw. We could easily have lost this game and drawn against Falkirk the week before and only taken 1 point from both games.

Now that would've been a major downer and blown any chance we had of 8th place. Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo.
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EdinburghLivi
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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by EdinburghLivi on Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:10 pm

Smithy wrote:Yeah did think that was quite amateurish, basically just trying to tout him as a star player by hopefully scoring with his first kick of the ball.

Given Fotheringham has scored free-kicks for us in the past, I was stunned he didn't take it.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:19 pm

Exactly EL; Fozzy was lining up to take it, Knox comes on and I couldn't believe that Fozzy acquiesced, I expected him to cuff him round the lug and tell him to get back to his PS4

I noticed the Stanton one on Saturday too; actually said he was too honest. Refs never call those though, especially when the impeded player gets a shot away or makes a pass. So I wasn't surprised by this decision; the one on Sheerin tho had me raging, I think I was incandescent with rage. I recently completed the questionnaire from the link on the OCS and slated the standard of refereeing, then Muir proves the point for me.
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Afro

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Afro on Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:18 pm

The whole penalty saga only overshadows what was a limp showing from us. Granted, Alloa are now relegated but it is not the achievement which some are making out given the obvious disparity in most areas between the two sides. They actually looked the better side for periods of the match, that in itself is worrying given the ease at which we've turned them over away from home twice. To finish the season with 1 point from 6 at home to a side like Alloa, especially given the context of both home games, is pathetic. We had a good chance to get the easiest 3 points of the run-in on board and we didn't do it. Blame has to lie with the management, tactically it wasn't brave enough and almost felt like we were sticking to the same trepidation that comes with playing Falkirk, Hibs and Sevco. Said it previously, but we are hopeless when the impetus is on us to attack and control a game. We got away with it at home to Dumbarton a few weeks back, but given that any League 1 team is liable to come here and hit us on the counter, we need to get our act together.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Bertie Bassett on Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:26 am

Exactly what I've been saying Afro, couldn't agree more.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Bertie Bassett on Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:08 am

Just watched the "highlights" and LiviTV have done an absolutely excellent job of the penalty incident. Humble pie time guys... The linesman was right, the foul is just before the 18 yard line. Looks like the ref was giving the pen but looked at the lineo and brought it back and with all the angles, close ups and slow-mos done by LiviTV, he was right.

Which brings us back to...we shouldn't have had to be complaining about that decision anyway, the team should have been set up and sent out to blast Alloa out of sight.

orco

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by orco on Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:09 am

Bertie that lino did not have the advantage of the angles and slow-mos from a camera and every Livi fan in the West stand as well as the ref saw Sheerin brought down in the box just before taking a shot. The lino did not even flag for a foul. He was a wee nyaff who several times gave wrong decisions including one blatantly wrong throw in. In the spirit of the game a penalty is given when a team is denied a goal scoring opportunity. That incident on Saturday fulfilled that criteria.
We've never had a break once this season! Sad
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by Bertie Bassett on Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:55 pm

Orco, he didn't need them as he was looking along the 18 yard line, he didn't have to flag for the foul as the ref had given it, all he had to do was help the ref reach the right decision, he did, well done him. Fact of the matter is we shouldn't have been relying on a decision like that to beat Alloa.

Both my sons were with me on Saturday. The elder and I were 100% convinced it was a pen;the younger was convinced it was in the D. He didn't even get out of his seat he was that sure.

In the spirit of the game we all want the correct decisions made, if the foul had occurred in the same fashion but a yard outside the box rather than a few inches, it would still have been a goal scoring opportunity...you're saying that in the spirit of the game that should be a pen? No way.

We have had breaks, I've seen us get away with fouls in the box, we are just not good enough or maybe just not brave enough to go flat out for a win against a poor side like Alloa, which frankly does not bode well for the play-offs.
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livikev

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by livikev on Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:51 am

I've watched the highlights (ahem) even in real time you can see its not a penalty.
The linesman was up with play and in a perfect position to look along the line.
We shouldn't need to rely on these decisions , we should be out to win by scoring from play.
We are dire to watch - the few players who do perform should be kicking the rest of the teams arses as its obvious Hopkins doesn't.
Linesman got it correct end of - Hopkins gets it wrong more times - tactics , starting line up and subs yet gets off the hook.
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LiviLion

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Re: Livi v Alloa

Post by LiviLion on Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:05 am

Still looks like a penalty to me, not as good an angle as the linesman would have had but looks right on the line for me. Just need to forget about it though and move on and get the points elsewhere.

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