Irn Bru Cup

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Liviforever

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Irn Bru Cup

Post by Liviforever on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:29 pm

Livi v Celtic colts

Maybe we should just stick our U20's out for this farce of a cup.

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Afro

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Afro on Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:39 pm

Will we see our lowest crowd ever of 503 broken here?

This competition isn't the same as the one we won the season before last. Bastardised by the SPFL to try and trial U20 teams in the senior leagues, pathetic stuff. I know we have to play the match but the reaction from the majority of supporters of all clubs I've seen tells a story in itself about the disdain most have for it now.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Bertie Bassett on Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:07 pm

It wouldn't surprise me if a number of Tic fans come along if the first team isn't playing the same night,

LF a fair number of our first team ARE U20 aren't they?
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LiviLion

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by LiviLion on Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:12 pm

Only bright side I can think of this is it might be on TV. Gives us a good chance to give guys like Knox, Currie, Orr, Allan and some of the other younger guys a run out, unless we're taking it seriously and going for the trophy.
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Liviforever

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Liviforever on Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:28 pm

Don't think there are many, if any of our first team starters U20 Bertie, most are 21-24 ish, sure isn't worth risking any first team regulars in this farce of a cup game when we've got Alloa in our next again game, the league is what we need to win to get back into the Championship.

We should treat this as an u20's/reserves game and put out our fringe players like we did against West Calder last night.
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LiviCub

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by LiviCub on Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:07 am

We should take this seriously, play our strongest XI and absolutely wipe them off the floor. U-20's/Colts teams have no place for competitions involving senior clubs or clubs from the junior level. The SPFL have made a mockery of a competition that could have a lot of potential to market and organise more effectively. Instead, they're just pleasing the jobbers in the top league.

We're only into round three and Celtic are the only colts teams left. By beating them, hopefully Doncaster and his mob will realise what another fuck up they've made and hopefully patch this 'idea' from next season.
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Liviforever

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Liviforever on Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:57 am

Best way to do that is if nobody turns up to watch it. The fans put pressure on their own clubs to make sure Sevco weren't getting a lift into the 1st division after being liquidated, and had to start afresh as a 'new club' in the 3rd division. The only way this will be scrapped next season is if the fans show their disapproval by boycotting games.

ol1vercloff

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by ol1vercloff on Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:55 pm

Liviforever wrote:Best way to do that is if nobody turns up to watch it. The fans put pressure on their own clubs to make sure Sevco weren't getting a lift into the 1st division after being liquidated, and had to start afresh as a 'new club' in the 3rd division. The only way this will be scrapped next season is if the fans show their disapproval by boycotting games.

Nonsense.
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Liviforever

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Liviforever on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:02 pm

No it isn't, good contribution though.

ol1vercloff

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by ol1vercloff on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:19 pm

Liviforever wrote:No it isn't, good contribution though.

Let's just boycott games every time we're unhappy with something. Magic. That'll solve everything. A team like Livi boycotting matches will surely make the footballing world look up and listen.

Laughing
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Liviforever

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Liviforever on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:32 pm

Obv nobody gives a feck about Livi, I wasn't just talking about us, I was saying fans from all the clubs should boycott the irn bru cup games. That's what stopped them shoe horning Sevco into the 1st division or that's exactly where they'd have started from. Fans made it clear to their own clubs they wouldn't renew ST, even Celtic fans joined in and their club voted against Sevco remaining in the SPL. The SPL clubs then took the cowards way out and passed it onto the SFL lower league clubs, thinking they'd let Sevco into the 1st div and it would be them that got the backlash from the fans instead. Only that didn't go to plan and the SFL clubs voted they should start from the 3rd div.

This is just testing the water for Doncaster to introduce colts teams into League One, the whole thing stinks and unless fans make themselves heard it'll happen.

ol1vercloff

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by ol1vercloff on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:48 pm

Liviforever wrote:Obv nobody gives a feck about Livi, I wasn't just talking about us, I was saying fans from all the clubs should boycott the irn bru cup games. That's what stopped them shoe horning Sevco into the 1st division or that's exactly where they'd have started from. Fans made it clear to their own clubs they wouldn't renew ST, even Celtic fans joined in and their club voted against Sevco remaining in the SPL. The SPL clubs then took the cowards way out and passed it onto the SFL lower league clubs, thinking they'd let Sevco into the 1st div and it would be them that got the backlash from the fans instead. Only that didn't go to plan and the SFL clubs voted they should start from the 3rd div.

This is just testing the water for Doncaster to introduce colts teams into League One, the whole thing stinks and unless fans make themselves heard it'll happen.

I've never agreed with match boycotting. Ultimately we would be causing damage to our own club. I don't think we can endure much more financial damage. Am I the only one that finds the new tournament layout more intriguing? Great opportunity for young (hopefully Scottish) players to develop, playing senior teams. But I don't really see what relevance the Rangers hating part has to do with any of this.

confused
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Liviforever

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Liviforever on Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:17 pm

It's the only way fans can get the SPFL to take notice. I doubt it would hurt us much either, we need to get the league game attendances up though, that's hurting us more than a one off mickey mouse cup game. Also need to get promotion or we're going to be in big trouble next season, another reason to treat this farce of a game as a reserve game and concentrate on the Alloa one that comes next.

Don't know what you're talking about in the last part of your post, pretty self explanatory my objection to colts teams participating, I made no reference to any individual one.
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orco

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by orco on Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:32 pm

Under 20 teams in an established tournament which only lower league clubs have previously been able to win is a piece of nonsense.
I would never boycott a game Livi play in though. That only harms the club and prevents me from watching my team.
It's a pity no one from fans' organisations has taken this on and shouted from the rooftops about it.
If we do beat the baby Celts I hope the whole idea dies a death.

ol1vercloff

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by ol1vercloff on Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:40 pm

Maybe I'm just seeing things from a national perspective, but I'm quite liking the chance future internationals are being given to develop here. I believe Colt type teams compete in senior tournaments and leagues in Spain and Germany, maybe even in more countries than that. Can it be a bad thing to take a leaf out of their book?
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EdinburghLivi
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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by EdinburghLivi on Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:42 am

I don't really have a problem with the Colt teams especially since, aside from clearly the best one, they've all been pumped out already. It probably only needs a slight tweak so there aren't as many in the competition next year.
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Liviforever

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Liviforever on Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:22 pm

EL, that's exactly what they want, Celtic and the tribute act to have colts teams in the lower leagues, it was talked about back in 2013, this looks suspiciously like Doncaster testing the water having them in this cup.

There is a development league for these teams to play in and scouts can watch them, no need to be putting them into this cup.

I wouldn't even be interested in going to a pre season game if we were playing an U20's team, it just devalues this competion having them in it.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:50 pm

What about the Welsh and Irish teams that are coming in later in the competition?

ol1vercloff

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by ol1vercloff on Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:00 pm

Liviforever wrote:
There is a development league for these teams to play in and scouts can watch them, no need to be putting them into this cup.

Surely it's better for the youngsters to test themselves against men instead of other boys? Scouts can get a better idea of the kind of talent a player has.

I'm always a tad sceptical when a kid is labelled as a 'wonderkid' at 15-16 when he's only really played against other kids. Sort of like Knox. Offering thousands and hundreds of thousands for a kid with a pinch of first team experience is mad. Colt teams in senior competitions will probably see more success stories instead of kids with big tags that amount to nothing. Again, this probably has more of a benefit to the national team in the long run.
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orco

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by orco on Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:51 pm

Bertie Bassett wrote:What about the Welsh and Irish teams that are coming in later in the competition?

Ditto! Evil or Very Mad

ol1vercloff

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by ol1vercloff on Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:03 pm

An exciting away day for us...if we don't get horsed out by Celtic unders!

Durnford

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Durnford on Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:52 am

Didn't we play the Hearts colts in the year we won the cup or did it just seem like it? Very Happy

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Liviforever

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Liviforever on Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:03 pm

ol1vercloff wrote:
Liviforever wrote:
There is a development league for these teams to play in and scouts can watch them, no need to be putting them into this cup.

Surely it's better for the youngsters to test themselves against men instead of other boys? Scouts can get a better idea of the kind of talent a player has.

I'm always a tad sceptical when a kid is labelled as a 'wonderkid' at 15-16 when he's only really played against other kids. Sort of like Knox. Offering thousands and hundreds of thousands for a kid with a pinch of first team experience is mad. Colt teams in senior competitions will probably see more success stories instead of kids with big tags that amount to nothing. Again, this probably has more of a benefit to the national team in the long run.

If a kid stands out his own team will play him in their first team but having a whole team of them playing against other clubs first teams in a comp is a nonsense.

What exactly did it do for these kids getting pumped out in the first round by part time lower league clubs? The only one that made it through was Celtic colts playing against one of the worst teams in the SPFL, only Edin City are worse than Cowden.
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Liviforever

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by Liviforever on Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:10 pm

Durnford wrote:Didn't we play the Hearts colts in the year we won the cup or did it just seem like it?  Very Happy


And they went on to win the league and get promotion, which is another good reason for us to do the same and stick in our u20's/reserves the same as Hearts did. Not as if they could make a complaint against us fielding our youth players, when the feckers are allowing colts teams to play in it.

Alloa doing well in the Bet Fred cup is doing us a favour, the more games they play the greater toll it will take on their PT players, and they've a small squad which will suffer greatly the minute injuries and suspensions hit them. Ironically they play Celtic's first team in the next round of that cup, hope they get a hard game and suffer for it in their next one.

ol1vercloff

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Re: Irn Bru Cup

Post by ol1vercloff on Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:12 pm

Liviforever wrote:
ol1vercloff wrote:
Liviforever wrote:
There is a development league for these teams to play in and scouts can watch them, no need to be putting them into this cup.

Surely it's better for the youngsters to test themselves against men instead of other boys? Scouts can get a better idea of the kind of talent a player has.

I'm always a tad sceptical when a kid is labelled as a 'wonderkid' at 15-16 when he's only really played against other kids. Sort of like Knox. Offering thousands and hundreds of thousands for a kid with a pinch of first team experience is mad. Colt teams in senior competitions will probably see more success stories instead of kids with big tags that amount to nothing. Again, this probably has more of a benefit to the national team in the long run.

If a kid stands out his own team will play him in their first team but having a whole team of them playing against other clubs first teams in a comp is a nonsense.

What exactly did it do for these kids getting pumped out in the first round by part time lower league clubs? The only one that made it through was Celtic colts playing against one of the worst teams in the SPFL, only Edin City are worse than Cowden.

Players always want to test themselves. Surely they get more of a test playing against a professional senior team than another young team? They don't have to win to take something from the game. Sure, a win and another game against a senior team would be better and give them more experience. But they have more experience of playing first team players than they had before.

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