Livi v East Fife

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LiviLion

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by LiviLion on Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:37 pm

Bertie Bassett wrote:Are you basing that on the assigned numbers in the draw? I assume they ran alphabetically with Aberdeen as number 1 etc?

Taking East Fife out of it and following it down would have meant we'd be #9 rather than Inverness, East Fife got an even more exciting tie away to Paisley.
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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:38 pm

Afro wrote:Disappointing result. Four games now against East Fife and we haven't sussed out how to play them at all. We could've came away with a draw but there's no point only showing the level of desire we did in the last 10 minutes for exactly that. EF looked up for it from the get go, and we played right into their hands again. Tactically I thought we were set up wrong and if Lithgow in particular starts at LB again next week, then we have a problem. The same goes for RDV, unfortunately; at this level, it's really not rocket science to see we perform best when we've got two proper wingers on the park.

Now that East Fife have just been drawn at home to St Mirren, that makes it a bit more disappointing; granted, the Maureens beat Dundee but they've been total horse this season. Would've been a great opportunity to have a good go at them and make the 6th round.

The first game against them was a bit of a freak result with the windy conditions having a lot to do with our horror show in the first half, then the ref having a rush of blood sending Miller off for a good challenge.

We beat them in the 2nd game 3-1 so did well enough there.

Wasn't at the 3rd game but seems we did ok going in 1-0 up but blew it 2nd half with some Kelly blunders in goal (actually Kelly was at fault for the goal that Insall scored to kill us off in the first game too), can't blame Hopkin for that.

And yesterday was another tight game with them scoring a wonder goal being the difference, fair enough they worked harder than us closing us down but they created very little, all their efforts went into making sure we created nothing. But we were unlucky not getting the draw with the close shaves we gave them late on.

So all in all I think it is unfair saying Hopkin has learnt nothing, it is just very tough games against 3 very well organised teams, with very little in it in the last games against them. Against Brechin, Alloa and Airdrie we absolutely have out done them tactically but Hopkin gets no credit at all, he just gets the 'with the players he has he should be beating them' line.

The only real problem I have with him now is dropping Longridge for Lithgow since Gallagher's signing, and to a certain extent the same with Mullin since signing Rafa.

Durnford

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Durnford on Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:13 am

Right; my hands seem to have thawed out enough now for me to comment.

We undoubtedly had the better players but they played as a team as opposed to a collection of individuals.

Kelly did okay in my opinion; not much he could do about their wonder goal and did produce a couple of good stops. 8/10

Creighton - kept being posted missing; at times I though we were actually playing three at the back. Pressing up is all very well but you need the speed to get back. 4/10

Gallagher - in contrast to what many others seemed to think I though he played reasonably well; particularly in the second half. Defended well; didn't get robbed of the ball at all and maintained a calm and focused approach. Shouted at Crieghton a few times about the off-side line where Creighton wasn't paying attention and holding back from the line. 8/10

Halkett - Played okay; was a bit casual at times but certainly demonstrated that central defence is his best position. 7/10

Lithgow - had a mare of a first half; slow to react on many occasions meaning that both Mullen and Pittman kept having to drop back to support him. Improved in the second half or maybe that was down to EF taking their foot off the gas and concentrating on defending. 4/10

Byrne - an error filled performance. Occasional good pass but mostly behind the intended recipient. Not sure why he remained on the pitch actually. 4/10

Pittman - not as bad as others have suggested. Ran about a lot; sometimes too close to the defenders resulting ion being closed down. Performance in the first half seriously impaired by keep having to be pulled back to help out the defence. 7/10

Buchannan - Instantly forgettable performance. Tried hard but stumbled his way through most of the game. Created a number of chances but no where near his better performance. Improved in the second half particularly linking up with Josh Mullin when he came on. 6/10

Mullin - Not great by any stretch of the imagination. Stifled out by their defence for most of the game. Also with him keep needing to come back to support defence meant his first half was restricted. That being said his battling up front and the fact that their defender had hold of his shirt so often it sometimes seemed questionable as to who was actually wearing it means I have given him a higher score than the end result possibly deserved. 7/10

De Vita - Really out of place playing with two other forwards. He has some of the best passing in the team; placing the ball ahead of an advancing player even though sometimes it seems he thinks too fast for the rest of the team. However his performance was rather lacklustre and uninspiring. 6/10

Cadden - what a frustrating player he really is. Some of his runs are really entertaining, he certainly has buckets of skill, but his greed and indecision all too often led to him being needlessly robbed. 5/10

Subs:
Josh Mullen - actually really started to stir things up when he came on and got warmed up. Difficult to see why he didn't come on earlier actually. 8/10

Carrick - Only really on the field for about 8 minutes. In my opinion would have been better replacing Byrne rather than Cadden; after all it was a cup match; it didn't matter if you lost by one or five goals; EF had already taken off Insall. Was really on the pitch for too short a period to demand much of a higher score so... 6/10


Why Longridge wasn't brought on when it became evident how much Lithgow struggled is a bit of a mystery.

Certainly with Keaghan Jacobs added to the squad and with Mark Miller available for the next game things are looking interesting. I wonder whether three central defenders and two wing-backs would be a better option. With Longridge and Mullin acting as wing-backs it could be pretty fiery.

Oh and a poor poor crowd; even given the cost of the tickets and the fact that we've already played EF three times already this season. Also surprisingly silent (except for the chattering of teeth and cries of "how many times ref" from someone behind me.).
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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:37 pm

The how many times ref guy with a squeeky voice, hear him at every game. Laughing

Aye Carrick was only on the pitch a few minutes and hit the cross bar with a shot, should've been on a lot earlier too. Gets himself in the positions we were needing players to be in for a few of the loose balls that fell in the 6 yard box when their keeper was beaten. Cadden runs and runs but doesn't look up and pass, then gets the ball taken off him, his crosses are normally pretty good though but he was firing wild high balls to no one too. Like a headless chicken on Sat.
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Afro

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Afro on Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:37 pm

Liviforever wrote:
Afro wrote:Disappointing result. Four games now against East Fife and we haven't sussed out how to play them at all. We could've came away with a draw but there's no point only showing the level of desire we did in the last 10 minutes for exactly that. EF looked up for it from the get go, and we played right into their hands again. Tactically I thought we were set up wrong and if Lithgow in particular starts at LB again next week, then we have a problem. The same goes for RDV, unfortunately; at this level, it's really not rocket science to see we perform best when we've got two proper wingers on the park.

Now that East Fife have just been drawn at home to St Mirren, that makes it a bit more disappointing; granted, the Maureens beat Dundee but they've been total horse this season. Would've been a great opportunity to have a good go at them and make the 6th round.

The first game against them was a bit of a freak result with the windy conditions having a lot to do with our horror show in the first half, then the ref having a rush of blood sending Miller off for a good challenge.

We beat them in the 2nd game 3-1 so did well enough there.

Wasn't at the 3rd game but seems we did ok going in 1-0 up but blew it 2nd half with some Kelly blunders in goal (actually Kelly was at fault for the goal that Insall scored to kill us off in the first game too), can't blame Hopkin for that.

And yesterday was another tight game with them scoring a wonder goal being the difference, fair enough they worked harder than us closing us down but they created very little, all their efforts went into making sure we created nothing. But we were unlucky not getting the draw with the close shaves we gave them late on.

So all in all I think it is unfair saying Hopkin has learnt nothing, it is just very tough games against 3 very well organised teams, with very little in it in the last games against them. Against Brechin, Alloa and Airdrie we absolutely have out done them tactically but Hopkin gets no credit at all, he just gets the 'with the players he has he should be beating them' line.

The only real problem I have with him now is dropping Longridge for Lithgow since Gallagher's signing, and to a certain extent the same with Mullin since signing Rafa.

I would disagree LF, first game against them we were murder and only one team on the day looked like adapting to the conditions. Unfortunately, it wasn't us, but it wasn't helped by our defence going AWOL, too. Granted, second game we eventually took the win after they totally lost the plot, but the away match against them on Hogmanay was a bit like Saturday; we didn't create that much, and EF took their chances when they came. I quite rightly said Hopkin got it spot on against the teams at the top, Alloa away in particular, but I still stand by it, he's been outfoxed by two managers now with a far poorer standard of squad than what we have. I inevitably wait for us to hammer EF 6-0 in the final meeting now I've said all this. Laughing
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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 pm

Nah first game was def the conditions and EF's game plan of lumping every ball they got towards our box to play of any mistakes our defence made, and we tried to get the ball under control instead of just clearing it out the danger area, I still say that was a freak result due to the conditions and some dodgy goal keeping by Kelly. 2nd half we were better with the wind behind us but the damage was done in the first half. The killer goal was Kelly being knocked off the ball by Insall, should've been a bloody foul with the ref giving them one for absolutely nothing when their keeper dropped the ball at our player's feet without anyone touching him, but Kelly still should've had the better of Insall and was weak for the challenge.

The 2nd away game was also down to Kelly, wasn't there but saw the highlights and he fecked up for both of their goals, and nearly got himself sent off for another blunder, handling the ball outside his box. Their first goal came from nothing, an easy take that he should've caught but fluffed it and the ball dropped right for Insall to head into our net, did the same thing again and conceded a corner too iirc, 2nd goal he ran out about 25 yards slid in to knock it off an EF player into his own net, you can't seriously blame Hopkin for that, Kelly was fully to blame for us chucking away our first half lead. Have no idea how you can think Hopkin was outfoxed by EF scoring two goals that our keeper blundered with.

He hasn't been outfoxed in our last three games against EF, and he learnt from the first time we played teams that did outfox us, Albion Rpvers for example, we ground out a win in our 2nd game against them and learnt from the first one when they hit us on the counter. He bugs my head with this putting players in unnatural positions but tactically he's improved this season and has tried different things when he lost games. Everyone makes mistakes and he's not had much experience as a manager so he's going to make some, but I can see he's improved a bit from last season.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Bertie Bassett on Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:23 am

Interesting... Afro says EF were the only team to adapt to the conditions in game 1. LF counters with "Nah, first game was def the conditions & EF's game plan....and we tried to get it under control"

Gentlemen... Sounds like you agree, despite LF's protestations. EF adapted to the conditions and we got our tactics wrong.

I missed both away games with EF but in the home league game they were the better side for most of the first half. We were the better side in the second half but for large parts of the game played into their hands. Only a wonder strike from Miller and a rare Buchanan penalty success giving us the win.

Last season our second half always started slowly and it has been more of the same for many games this season, causing us to have 1-0 half time leads overturned in the second half. I would contend that Hoppy hasn't learned as much tactically as it sometimes appears because he still makes the same mistakes as he made last season. Failure to consistently go for the jugular when on top & mogadon & horlicks half time team talks.

IMO our inability to consistently beat the so called lesser sides is an indication that we will continue to struggle in the second tier, should we get there, unless we have a major overhaul in tactical awareness.

Durnford

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Durnford on Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:31 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but when we were last in, what was previously called the second division, didn't we go through the entire season without loss? Bollan's team was made up of kids and freebees - oh and Robbie Winters.

Thing was we had a number of good ones coming through the youth team and prepared to fight.
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LiviLion

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by LiviLion on Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:31 pm

It was that time we ended up having the longest unbeaten home run in Britain, we lost a few away games that season though including a 3-0 hammering at Peterhead.
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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:04 pm

Yeah the 3-1 defeat was a mix of freaky conditions and EF's game plan so fair do's to them they beat us fair and square. But how the hell is the 2nd and 3rd defeat to them down to EF outfoxing us, the Kelly blunders weren't down to their game plan unless their GP was to hit it towards Kelly all game and wait for him to fluff the ball to Insall or kick it off one of their players into his own net. Shocked  And what about the cup defeat, did their game plan consist of getting a volley from outside the box to scrape a 1-0 win? They closed us down well and stifled us but we still have a few chances to score and hitting the ball and getting a ball headed off the line hardly looks like being outfoxed to me.

Even with our win over them Hopkin isn't getting credit, Afro is putting that down to EF shooting themselves in the foot with a 10 minute spell of indiscipline where they fell apart, Hopkin just can't win, literally.

The QP first defeat was also more down to luck, they got a scrappy goal with about their only threat all game from a corner and we get a goal chopped off by the Lino not seeing Mullin had at least 2 QP players in front of him when he made his run for the goal. The only games I've seen where we were mugged and outfoxed tactically was Peterheid and Rovers at home, both sucked us in and hit us on the break. QP and EF give us tough games and are very well organised but the games against them haven't been tactical masterclasses over Hopkin.
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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:48 pm

Durnford wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but when we were last in, what was previously called the second division, didn't we go through the entire season without loss? Bollan's team was made up of kids and freebees - oh and Robbie Winters.

Thing was we had a number of good ones coming through the youth team and prepared to fight.

At the 20 game stage we were on 43 points and 9 points clear but the 3 teams just below us had 2 games in hand this time we've got 42 points and are 9 points clear with a game in hand so i'd say we're actually doing slightly better under Hopkin so far, and our GD is a lot better than Bollan's too.

Hardly full of kids, we had, Fox, Talbot, Bullock, and the experience of Deuchar, Winters and Russell in our front line, as well as Rafa and McNulty for youthful exuberance, quite a fearsome strike force to choose from.

We've currently got Kelly 20, Cadden 20 , Longridge 21, Mullen 21, Halkett 21,  so we've a few youngish players ourselves this season.

We didn't lose at home but we lost away to Ayr Utd, Forfar, Peterheid, and Brechin. We also drew 7 games which is 14 points dropped, so a bit of rose tinted specs with our fans where Bollan is concerned.

We went on our best run from Feb onwards though and opened up a 23 points gap.

After 20 games we'd dropped 17 points, a point less than this season under Hopkin, but in the next 16 games we only dropped 9 points which is a tough act to follow for Hopkin, but I think he'll still win the league comfortably.
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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Afro on Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:32 pm

We created absolutely nothing in the Hogmanay game against them LF, yet we stuck to the same tactics of punting it long to two of the smallest strikers in the division in the hope of getting something. If we were on a par with them in terms of ability I'd maybe back that, but we clearly have a better calibre of player and having our midfielders craning their necks for an hour and a half produced nothing. We then employed the same tactics against them at the weekend and lo behold, they've beat us again.

In fairness to Hopkin, Bollan had the luxury of some very experienced players, and Iain Russell in his prime. He also had the luxury of bringing in a legendary lower league goalscorer in January, who netted a hat-trick on his debut against... East Fife. Wink
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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:43 pm

Bertie Bassett wrote:Interesting... Afro says EF were the only team to adapt to the conditions in game 1. LF counters with "Nah, first game was def the conditions & EF's game plan....and we tried to get it under control"

Gentlemen... Sounds like you agree, despite LF's protestations. EF adapted to the conditions and we got our tactics wrong.

I missed both away games with EF but in the home league game they were the better side for most of the first half. We were the better side in the second half but for large parts of the game played into their hands. Only a wonder strike from Miller and a rare Buchanan penalty success giving us the win.

Last season our second half always started slowly and it has been more of the same for many games this season, causing us to have 1-0 half time leads overturned in the second half. I would contend that Hoppy hasn't learned as much tactically as it sometimes appears because he still makes the same mistakes as he made last season. Failure to consistently go for the jugular when on top & mogadon & horlicks half time team talks.

IMO our inability to consistently beat the so called lesser sides is an indication that we will continue to struggle in the second tier, should we get there, unless we have a major overhaul in tactical awareness.

I think it has been a mixture actually, we blew teams away for the first few games, then we were winning a lot of games 3-0 and 3-1, things got a bit tighter with the goals not flowing as well and we had a run of games in Dec where we finished strongly which had a lot to do with Hopkin's tactics of keeping the game tight then bringing on Carrick, Mullin/Cadden and nicking late goals. So I think it's unfair saying he hasn't learnt anything from last season and is just the same in every game. Imo he has made mistakes but has also changed tactics against teams to counter those mistakes the next time we played them, Peterheid, Rovers.

Can't fault his signings either, he's brought good experienced players in at a time we are needing that extra boost to push on, Millar and Keaghan look quality signings at this level, and big Dec will be a big influence in the run in. Dunno how this Hearts striker will get on but at 6ft 3 he gives us something we've been missing, a physical presence up front and that might just get us goals when we're struggling against the likes of QP.

My only bug bear is Lithgow at LB, and to a lesser extent Rafa on the left wing when Mullin is being dropped to the bench.
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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:03 pm

Afro wrote:We created absolutely nothing in the Hogmanay game against them LF, yet we stuck to the same tactics of punting it long to two of the smallest strikers in the division in the hope of getting something. If we were on a par with them in terms of ability I'd maybe back that, but we clearly have a better calibre of player and having our midfielders craning their necks for an hour and a half produced nothing. We then employed the same tactics against them at the weekend and lo behold, they've beat us again.

In fairness to Hopkin, Bollan had the luxury of some very experienced players, and Iain Russell in his prime. He also had the luxury of bringing in a legendary lower league goalscorer in January, who netted a hat-trick on his debut against... East Fife. Wink

Must've created something, we scored the first goal. Wink  My point was though we were 1-0 up and only lost due to Kelly's two blunders from nothing.

Come on Afro, a wonder strike from them, us hitting the bar and having a ball cleared off the line and lo behold they won again, it was a close game which they scraped by a whisker as they hung on by their toenails. They're also the form team just now undefeated in 9 games, incl wins over us and Brechin, and draws with Alloa and Airdrie, so they're no mugs, they're a difficult team to play against, and not just for us.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Bertie Bassett on Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:16 pm

I'm not saying he's learned nothing at all but he hasn't learned enough. Our standard of play drops significantly against the "lesser" sides (except for Stenhousemuir so far). Our tendency to start the second half slowly is unacceptable IMO

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Durnford on Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:21 pm

Liviforever wrote:
Durnford wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but when we were last in, what was previously called the second division, didn't we go through the entire season without loss? Bollan's team was made up of kids and freebees - oh and Robbie Winters.

Thing was we had a number of good ones coming through the youth team and prepared to fight.

At the 20 game stage we were on 43 points and 9 points clear but the 3 teams just below us had 2 games in hand this time we've got 42 points and are 9 points clear with a game in hand so i'd say we're actually doing slightly better under Hopkin so far, and our GD is a lot better than Bollan's too.

Hardly full of kids, we had, Fox, Talbot, Bullock, and the experience of Deuchar, Winters and Russell in our front line, as well as Rafa and McNulty for youthful exuberance, quite a fearsome strike force to choose from.

We've currently got Kelly 20, Cadden 20 , Longridge 21, Mullen 21, Halkett 21,  so we've a few youngish players ourselves this season.

We didn't lose at home but we lost away to Ayr Utd, Forfar, Peterheid, and Brechin. We also drew 7 games which is 14 points dropped, so a bit of rose tinted specs with our fans where Bollan is concerned.

We went on our best run from Feb onwards though and opened up a 23 points gap.

After 20 games we'd dropped 17 points, a point less than this season under Hopkin, but in the next 16 games we only dropped 9 points which is a tough act to follow for Hopkin, but I think he'll still win the league comfortably.

You misunderstood the reason for my post Liviforever. It was fostered by nostalgia rather than wanting to have a go at Hopkins. True I'm not his greatest fan tactically but he is what we can afford.

As far as Winters and Deucher never actually played in the same team neither did Boulding as someone else mentioned.

As for the youngish players listed by you it is indeed regrettable that of Kelly, Cadden, Longridge, Mullen, Halkett, only one of those has actually been developed through our own youth system. Fortunately with the return of Jacobs we can increase the number of home grown players getting a starting berth by 100%.

One other things I miss from that season though was that we used to manage to half fill the south stand. And no I'm not blaming Hopkins for that either. I do seem to recall some sort of experiment of playing Mango Barr at right back which didnt really work - how times change eh?

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Durnford on Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:24 pm

Liviforever wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:Interesting... Afro says EF were the only team to adapt to the conditions in game 1. LF counters with "Nah, first game was def the conditions & EF's game plan....and we tried to get it under control"

Gentlemen... Sounds like you agree, despite LF's protestations. EF adapted to the conditions and we got our tactics wrong.

I missed both away games with EF but in the home league game they were the better side for most of the first half. We were the better side in the second half but for large parts of the game played into their hands. Only a wonder strike from Miller and a rare Buchanan penalty success giving us the win.

Last season our second half always started slowly and it has been more of the same for many games this season, causing us to have 1-0 half time leads overturned in the second half. I would contend that Hoppy hasn't learned as much tactically as it sometimes appears because he still makes the same mistakes as he made last season. Failure to consistently go for the jugular when on top & mogadon & horlicks half time team talks.

IMO our inability to consistently beat the so called lesser sides is an indication that we will continue to struggle in the second tier, should we get there, unless we have a major overhaul in tactical awareness.

I think it has been a mixture actually, we blew teams away for the first few games, then we were winning a lot of games 3-0 and 3-1, things got a bit tighter with the goals not flowing as well and we had a run of games in Dec where we finished strongly which had a lot to do with Hopkin's tactics of keeping the game tight then bringing on Carrick, Mullin/Cadden and nicking late goals. So I think it's unfair saying he hasn't learnt anything from last season and is just the same in every game. Imo he has made mistakes but has also changed tactics against teams to counter those mistakes the next time we played them, Peterheid, Rovers.

Can't fault his signings either, he's brought good experienced players in at a time we are needing that extra boost to push on, Millar and Keaghan look quality signings at this level, and big Dec will be a big influence in the run in. Dunno how this Hearts striker will get on but at 6ft 3 he gives us something we've been missing, a physical presence up front and that might just get us goals when we're struggling against the likes of QP.

My only bug bear is Lithgow at LB, and to a lesser extent Rafa on the left wing when Mullin is being dropped to the bench.

Sorry but I can fault the signings - very few of the Airdrie ones have actually worked out so far and others haven't really delivered their potential.

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Durnford on Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:28 pm

Liviforever wrote:
Afro wrote:We created absolutely nothing in the Hogmanay game against them LF, yet we stuck to the same tactics of punting it long to two of the smallest strikers in the division in the hope of getting something. If we were on a par with them in terms of ability I'd maybe back that, but we clearly have a better calibre of player and having our midfielders craning their necks for an hour and a half produced nothing. We then employed the same tactics against them at the weekend and lo behold, they've beat us again.

In fairness to Hopkin, Bollan had the luxury of some very experienced players, and Iain Russell in his prime. He also had the luxury of bringing in a legendary lower league goalscorer in January, who netted a hat-trick on his debut against... East Fife. Wink

Must've created something, we scored the first goal. Wink  My point was though we were 1-0 up and only lost due to Kelly's two blunders from nothing.

Come on Afro, a wonder strike from them, us hitting the bar and having a ball cleared off the line and lo behold they won again, it was a close game which they scraped by a whisker as they hung on by their toenails. They're also the form team just now undefeated in 9 games, incl wins over us and Brechin, and draws with Alloa and Airdrie, so they're no mugs, they're a difficult team to play against, and not just for us.

Its the age-old saying though isn't it - I've lost count how many times over the years I've said "if played for 90 minutes like we did in the last ten...."
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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:52 pm

Bertie Bassett wrote:I'm not saying he's learned nothing at all but he hasn't learned enough. Our standard of play drops significantly against the "lesser" sides (except for Stenhousemuir so far). Our tendency to start the second half slowly is unacceptable IMO

Stenny and Stranraer are the 'lesser teams' and we've beaten both of them twice. Wouldn't call the mid table teams vying for top 4 spots lesser, they're taking points off all the current top 4 teams and have looked better than them too anytime I've seen them playing us. East Fife have the best goals against stat in the league too and on current form will be in the top 4 soon. I actually think both East Fife and QP will move ahead of Brechin this weekend (hopefully we beat Brechin anyway).  

I'd hate to see the flack Hopkin would be taking if we were 2nd in the league instead of sitting 9 points clear.
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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:01 am

Durnford wrote:
Liviforever wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:Interesting... Afro says EF were the only team to adapt to the conditions in game 1. LF counters with "Nah, first game was def the conditions & EF's game plan....and we tried to get it under control"

Gentlemen... Sounds like you agree, despite LF's protestations. EF adapted to the conditions and we got our tactics wrong.

I missed both away games with EF but in the home league game they were the better side for most of the first half. We were the better side in the second half but for large parts of the game played into their hands. Only a wonder strike from Miller and a rare Buchanan penalty success giving us the win.

Last season our second half always started slowly and it has been more of the same for many games this season, causing us to have 1-0 half time leads overturned in the second half. I would contend that Hoppy hasn't learned as much tactically as it sometimes appears because he still makes the same mistakes as he made last season. Failure to consistently go for the jugular when on top & mogadon & horlicks half time team talks.

IMO our inability to consistently beat the so called lesser sides is an indication that we will continue to struggle in the second tier, should we get there, unless we have a major overhaul in tactical awareness.

I think it has been a mixture actually, we blew teams away for the first few games, then we were winning a lot of games 3-0 and 3-1, things got a bit tighter with the goals not flowing as well and we had a run of games in Dec where we finished strongly which had a lot to do with Hopkin's tactics of keeping the game tight then bringing on Carrick, Mullin/Cadden and nicking late goals. So I think it's unfair saying he hasn't learnt anything from last season and is just the same in every game. Imo he has made mistakes but has also changed tactics against teams to counter those mistakes the next time we played them, Peterheid, Rovers.

Can't fault his signings either, he's brought good experienced players in at a time we are needing that extra boost to push on, Millar and Keaghan look quality signings at this level, and big Dec will be a big influence in the run in. Dunno how this Hearts striker will get on but at 6ft 3 he gives us something we've been missing, a physical presence up front and that might just get us goals when we're struggling against the likes of QP.

My only bug bear is Lithgow at LB, and to a lesser extent Rafa on the left wing when Mullin is being dropped to the bench.

Sorry but I can fault the signings - very few of the Airdrie ones have actually worked out so far and others haven't really delivered their potential.

Yet we're 9 points clear at the top of the league, we didn't get there by his signing not working. The only one that hasn't worked out from Airdrie is Watt, he looked a decent player but unfortunately for him our midfield is stacked and he couldn't fit into Hopkin's preferred starting 11.

He's strengthened well in January though and brought in 3 experienced players which should push us on when others will start to struggle.
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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:20 am

Durnford wrote:

You misunderstood the reason for my post Liviforever. It was fostered by nostalgia rather than wanting to have a go at Hopkins. True I'm not his greatest fan tactically but he is what we can afford.

As far as Winters and Deucher never actually played in the same team neither did Boulding as someone else mentioned.

As for the youngish players listed by you it is indeed regrettable that of Kelly, Cadden, Longridge, Mullen, Halkett,  only one of those has actually been developed through our own youth system. Fortunately with the return of Jacobs we can increase the number of home grown players getting a starting berth by 100%.

One other things I miss from that season though was that we used to manage to half fill the south stand. And no I'm not blaming Hopkins for that either. I do seem to recall some sort of experiment of playing Mango Barr at right back which didnt really work - how times change eh?

Yeah nostalgia sometimes clouds our memory D, and makes us think things were better than they actually were.

Winters and Deuchar played for Livi that season, Winters came on for Deuchar in the 2nd back to back game against East Fife just after Deuchar signed for us. Unless you're being pedantic and saying they weren't on the pitch at the same time. Laughing We had Russell as our main striker and rotated the others around, Deuchar came off and Winters or Rafa came on.

Durnford

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Join date : 2014-10-23

Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Durnford on Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:21 pm

Liviforever wrote:
Durnford wrote:
Liviforever wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:Interesting... Afro says EF were the only team to adapt to the conditions in game 1. LF counters with "Nah, first game was def the conditions & EF's game plan....and we tried to get it under control"

Gentlemen... Sounds like you agree, despite LF's protestations. EF adapted to the conditions and we got our tactics wrong.

I missed both away games with EF but in the home league game they were the better side for most of the first half. We were the better side in the second half but for large parts of the game played into their hands. Only a wonder strike from Miller and a rare Buchanan penalty success giving us the win.

Last season our second half always started slowly and it has been more of the same for many games this season, causing us to have 1-0 half time leads overturned in the second half. I would contend that Hoppy hasn't learned as much tactically as it sometimes appears because he still makes the same mistakes as he made last season. Failure to consistently go for the jugular when on top & mogadon & horlicks half time team talks.

IMO our inability to consistently beat the so called lesser sides is an indication that we will continue to struggle in the second tier, should we get there, unless we have a major overhaul in tactical awareness.

I think it has been a mixture actually, we blew teams away for the first few games, then we were winning a lot of games 3-0 and 3-1, things got a bit tighter with the goals not flowing as well and we had a run of games in Dec where we finished strongly which had a lot to do with Hopkin's tactics of keeping the game tight then bringing on Carrick, Mullin/Cadden and nicking late goals. So I think it's unfair saying he hasn't learnt anything from last season and is just the same in every game. Imo he has made mistakes but has also changed tactics against teams to counter those mistakes the next time we played them, Peterheid, Rovers.

Can't fault his signings either, he's brought good experienced players in at a time we are needing that extra boost to push on, Millar and Keaghan look quality signings at this level, and big Dec will be a big influence in the run in. Dunno how this Hearts striker will get on but at 6ft 3 he gives us something we've been missing, a physical presence up front and that might just get us goals when we're struggling against the likes of QP.

My only bug bear is Lithgow at LB, and to a lesser extent Rafa on the left wing when Mullin is being dropped to the bench.

Sorry but I can fault the signings - very few of the Airdrie ones have actually worked out so far and others haven't really delivered their potential.

Yet we're 9 points clear at the top of the league, we didn't get there by his signing not working. The only one that hasn't worked out from Airdrie is Watt, he looked a decent player but unfortunately for him our midfield is stacked and he couldn't fit into Hopkin's preferred starting 11.

He's strengthened well in January though and brought in 3 experienced players which should push us on when others will start to struggle.

So by then you're saying that Creighton and Lithgow have worked out? My assessment would be shaky at best. As for Sinclair he's hardly appeared.

Cadden could be great if he sorted a few things out but he rarely gets more than about 60% of a game now.

The newbies from last season, Halkett (actually he arrived at the end of the season before hadn't he) and Josh Mullin seem to have settled well. I particularly like Mullin's battling nature.


Durnford

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Join date : 2014-10-23

Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Durnford on Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:32 pm

Liviforever wrote:
Durnford wrote:

You misunderstood the reason for my post Liviforever. It was fostered by nostalgia rather than wanting to have a go at Hopkins. True I'm not his greatest fan tactically but he is what we can afford.

As far as Winters and Deucher never actually played in the same team neither did Boulding as someone else mentioned.

As for the youngish players listed by you it is indeed regrettable that of Kelly, Cadden, Longridge, Mullen, Halkett,  only one of those has actually been developed through our own youth system. Fortunately with the return of Jacobs we can increase the number of home grown players getting a starting berth by 100%.

One other things I miss from that season though was that we used to manage to half fill the south stand. And no I'm not blaming Hopkins for that either. I do seem to recall some sort of experiment of playing Mango Barr at right back which didnt really work - how times change eh?

Yeah nostalgia sometimes clouds our memory D, and makes us think things were better than they actually were.

Winters and Deuchar played for Livi that season, Winters came on for Deuchar in the 2nd back to back game against East Fife just after Deuchar signed for us. Unless you're being pedantic and saying they weren't on the pitch at the same time. Laughing  We had Russell as our main striker and rotated the others around, Deuchar came off and Winters or Rafa came on.

The stats show Deucher as having signed for Livi in the 2011/2012 season but later on it states that he signed for us on 18th January 2011 - not quite the same thing.

Statistics eh?
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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:34 am

Durnford wrote:
Liviforever wrote:
Durnford wrote:

You misunderstood the reason for my post Liviforever. It was fostered by nostalgia rather than wanting to have a go at Hopkins. True I'm not his greatest fan tactically but he is what we can afford.

As far as Winters and Deucher never actually played in the same team neither did Boulding as someone else mentioned.

As for the youngish players listed by you it is indeed regrettable that of Kelly, Cadden, Longridge, Mullen, Halkett,  only one of those has actually been developed through our own youth system. Fortunately with the return of Jacobs we can increase the number of home grown players getting a starting berth by 100%.

One other things I miss from that season though was that we used to manage to half fill the south stand. And no I'm not blaming Hopkins for that either. I do seem to recall some sort of experiment of playing Mango Barr at right back which didnt really work - how times change eh?

Yeah nostalgia sometimes clouds our memory D, and makes us think things were better than they actually were.

Winters and Deuchar played for Livi that season, Winters came on for Deuchar in the 2nd back to back game against East Fife just after Deuchar signed for us. Unless you're being pedantic and saying they weren't on the pitch at the same time. Laughing  We had Russell as our main striker and rotated the others around, Deuchar came off and Winters or Rafa came on.

The stats show Deucher as having signed for Livi in the 2011/2012 season but later on it states that he signed for us on 18th January 2011 - not quite the same thing.

Statistics eh?

Yeah I was at the away game against East Fife where he scored a hattrick in his first game for us, Tues 18th Jan 2011. Him and Robbie Winters def played for us that season.

I'm sure i saw the highlights of that game recently, must've been on FB, Livi keep posting 'remember when' Livi games up on FB.
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Liviforever

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Re: Livi v East Fife

Post by Liviforever on Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:02 am

Durnford wrote:


So by then you're saying that Creighton and Lithgow have worked out? My assessment would be shaky at best. As for Sinclair he's hardly appeared.

Cadden could be great if he sorted a few things out but he rarely gets more than about 60% of a game now.

The newbies from last season, Halkett (actually he arrived at the end of the season before hadn't he) and Josh Mullin seem to have settled well. I particularly like Mullin's battling nature.


They've worked out in that they've been regular first team picks and have featured for us all season, and are part of the team that has got us 9 points clear at the top of the table. Whether they're good enough for the Championship remains to be seen (I have my doubts tbh) but they've done a decent enough job in this league.

Yeah Sinclair has featured even less than Watt, but then again who plays every signing, you make signings and some work better than others, the majority of the players he's signed have played and done well, some others just can't get a game because Hopkin prefers other players over them. Like Byrne and Miller over Sinclair.

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Re: Livi v East Fife

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