Independence referendum

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How will you vote?

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[ 8 ]
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Total Votes: 16

BasilF

Posts : 46
Join date : 2014-09-09

Re: Independence referendum

Post by BasilF on Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:46 am

Anyway though Angela Constance did very well on the news today. Magmanimous in defeat (although words such as victory and defeat were pretty much absent at the time) whilst correctly taking a number of positives from the result and comments on how to move forward. Its a shame she's not better recieved by the west side of the country - also ew image did her no harm at all.

By contract Salmond resorted to Churchillian rhetoric (strange that he shoud choose another turncoat) and Cameron hardly added anything the the whole process.

The fact that Cameron then started banging on about wider autonomy for some of the bigger English cities (Manchester was one that had previously been bandied around) is a nightmare - there were super councils in the 70's with huge powers etc. and that really didn't work - likewise if you give powers to Manchester what about Leeds/Bradford and Liverpool? Both areas really detest Manchester - a political time-bomb.
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Afro

Posts : 511
Join date : 2014-06-14

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Afro on Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:51 am

I am fucking gutted. Big opportunity missed IMO and it pains me that such an opportunity will likely never happen again in my lifetime.

We'll probably get pumped by Raith, now. Save this week from being a total write-off, Livingston, please.

Therealbiko

Posts : 13
Join date : 2014-08-17

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Therealbiko on Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:01 am

Time to understand what democracy is. Some 3.8m Scots voted last night and about 400k more voted for the No option. Listen to Alex Salmond's acceptance (of defeat) speech this morning. We need to keep all 3.8m people engaged in politics and take back control from the political classes. To be honest, there were not too many Nationalists who truly believed that they would win. People have been deluded by the vocal Yessers, only to be triumphed by the "silent majority", many who were too afraid to vocalise their views. The interesting point of last nights vote is that 3 of the areas voting Yes were Labour with only Dundee being recognised as an SNP area. The rest of the SNP areas voted No.
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Bertie Bassett

Posts : 1925
Join date : 2014-07-25
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:29 am

Agreed on the surprising area decisions; when you look at the vote by region it was a landslide; 28 to 4 but by virtue of population it was so much tighter.

Ahead of the results I'd have banked on some wins in the 28 areas for Yes; not enough to win but enough to make it closer.

An excellent turn out & much as it pains me, its a result I expected; but in my view, "The Vow" is worth less than the paper that had it as its front page; & many who vote No on the strength of it have fallen for another hollow lie from Westminster. It is already showing signs of falling apart & the counting fingers of the vote counters have still not fully recovered.
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Liviforever

Posts : 3435
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Liviforever on Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:07 am

Afro wrote:I am fucking gutted. Big opportunity missed IMO and it pains me that such an opportunity will likely never happen again in my lifetime.

We'll probably get pumped by Raith, now. Save this week from being a total write-off, Livingston, please.

Yep, shit week. Would've felt excited by a YES vote, instead I feel flat that we've settled for the same old same old, hoping that change will come from Westminster giving us some devo max powers when they are already arguing about it.  Huge percentage of pensioners voted NO, think it was somewhere around 76%, unfortunately the scare stories about their pensions worked.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the Tories and UKIP team up and take us out of Europe, then all the American bankers leave London for Ireland, after all the scaremongering about banks leaving Scotland.
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Liviforever

Posts : 3435
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Liviforever on Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:17 am

BasilF wrote:
Liviforever wrote:I'm beginning to think you're at it Basil, a blind man could see the media has been biased over this referendum in favour of the BT campaign.

I'm sorry you feel that way; I point out that the basis for your arguement was flawed and we end up with figer pointing and name calling?


No finger pointing or name calling Basil, just looked like you were on the wind up with being so blind to the biased reporting of the referendum, only reporting on the possible doom of a YES vote when their were positive stories not being told. If not then fair enough, funny how folk can see things so differently, we're never going to agree on this but I'm not going to fall out with you over it.

I'm gutted and feeling flat over the result, but it's a democratic decision so i'll have to live with it, something that doesn't happen in a general election in Scotland, we've voted ourselves from a Country to a region on the promise of devo max.

Flower of Scotland needs to be binned, cringe singing that after this result.
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LiviLion

Posts : 798
Join date : 2014-06-10
Age : 21
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by LiviLion on Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:06 pm

Liviforever wrote:Flower of Scotland needs to be binned, cringe singing that after this result.

Playing against England is going to be a nightmare now. Think we should get the ridicule out the way early with a chorus of "We're just a small part of England" before they get it in.

I do think we should still belt out FoS against Georgia at Ibrox though. And maybe something on the 4th, 5th, and 45th minute too.
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Bertie Bassett

Posts : 1925
Join date : 2014-07-25
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:02 pm

Saw an amusing photo of Mel Gibson in Braveheart with the following words over it:

"They'll never take our FREEDOM! We'll democratically vote to give it away!"
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Liviforever

Posts : 3435
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Liviforever on Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:21 pm

The wheels are coming off the BT devo max vows already with them squabbling amongst themselves. The Conservatives have outmaneuvered Labour over the Scottish MP's not getting to vote on English matters and are now doing the same with backsliding on devo max promises. Who'd have saw that coming!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29432379


Commenting on Mr Brown's latest devolution proposals, Mr Salmond said: "This is an astonishing development.

"How can Gordon Brown call for people to sign a petition urging Westminster to keep its promises on more powers for Scotland when he himself has already said that is a vow which will be honoured?

"The 'Tory trap' is not the proposals on income tax which Gordon Brown talks about - it is the Tory trap which he and his colleagues are leading people into, in which the issue of more powers for Scotland becomes entangled in a row between factions of the Westminster establishment."

The first minister added: "Many of the people who voted No in the referendum did so in the belief that those new powers would be delivered, and that is what now must happen."

Speaking to the BBC on the weekend after the independence referendum, Scottish Finance Secretary John Swinney, accused the UK parties of "utterly unseemly behaviour".

Mr Swinney, who will take part in the Kelvin commission along with fellow SNP MSP Linda Fabiani, called for "absolutely no backsliding whatsoever".

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Osborne's conference speech stating he intends to freeze benefits, child tax credit etc for 2 years along with other austerity measures whilst cutting the top tax rate and pissing away 3 billion pounds sending planes into Iraq is also a fecking doozy.

Therealbiko

Posts : 13
Join date : 2014-08-17

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Therealbiko on Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:50 am

When are the Yessers going to realise that they LOST, can anyone explain how an independent Scotland would have become this fairer society? The same capitalists would function here as anywhere else. The only policy in the White Paper was to reduce Corporation Tax the rest was aspirational. So we reduce the tax take in the hope we could earn more as a tax haven to the immoral business like Google, Apple, Amazon, Starbucks etc it would be a race to the bottom. As for bombing Iraq, they have requested helpk should we leave thousand of women to be raped, children to be decapitated by these barbarians? It seems that those in an independent Scotland would lift their kilts above their heads, play their bagpipes loudly saying "we can't see or hear anything bad". I am not a war monger, but the SNP and their supporters don't seem to have a grasp of foreign affairs, for example they keep going on about the Afganistan conflict being an illegal war, but this was a UN sanctioned exercise. The 2nd Iraq was can rightly be called an illegal was, but the 1st and this latest come under the international law convention of being legal. Action in Syria , would not be covered under this convention.
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Bertie Bassett

Posts : 1925
Join date : 2014-07-25
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:53 pm

Therealbiko wrote:When are the Yessers going to realise that they LOST, can anyone explain how an independent Scotland would have become this fairer society? The same capitalists would function here as anywhere else. The only policy in the White Paper was to reduce Corporation Tax the rest was aspirational. So we reduce the tax take in the hope we could earn more as a tax haven to the immoral business like Google, Apple, Amazon, Starbucks etc it would be a race to the bottom. As for bombing Iraq, they have requested helpk should we leave thousand of women to be raped, children to be decapitated by these barbarians? It seems that those in an independent Scotland would lift their kilts above their heads, play their bagpipes loudly saying "we can't see or hear anything bad". I am not a war monger, but the SNP and their supporters don't seem to have a grasp of foreign affairs, for example they keep going on about the Afganistan conflict being an illegal war, but this was a UN sanctioned exercise. The 2nd Iraq was can rightly be called an illegal was, but the 1st and this latest come under the international law convention of being legal. Action in Syria , would not be covered under this convention.


Before the final vote was declared.


Fairer? That would depend on how it was governed & whether the people themselves would then make the government account for any & all discretions...but we'll never know now, because we are stuck with whatever England wants & our voice is just a whisper at Westminster.

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Liviforever

Posts : 3435
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Liviforever on Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:19 pm

The so called legal wars are a joke, go tell the hundreds and thousands of innocent people killed in these wars that they are ok because the UN sanctioned them after being manipulated into doing so. We're killing more innocent people in these wars than the fecking extremists.

IS wanted these bombings that's why they beheaded US and Brit citizens, now they have other extremist groups joining their cause. Even in the remote chance years down the line they were wiped out you've already got a group ready to take over, bombing the shit out of them wont work.

The excuse used is bollocks too, has nothing to do with a terrorist threat, though we're only going to make that more likely sticking our oar in at every opportunity, Obama has bombed seven different countries since becoming president ffs. It is all to do with oil, same as the Iraqi WMD war was. I'm sure the 3 billion that's being punted into our Iraq bombing campaign will be appreciated by whoever is making a fair wedge supplying arms and tech to the military, I wonder who they are and if they make donations to any political parties.

Oh and the pro independence voters will never give in, they'll get stronger once the NO voters realize they were taken for mugs by the fear campaign and devo max promises that will never happen. God help us all if the Tories get in again, which looks very likely given how inept Miliband is and no other party except UKIP remotely big enough to challenge them.
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Bertie Bassett

Posts : 1925
Join date : 2014-07-25
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:27 pm

BTW this latest war is legal? Why are they going in? Because ISIS are causing bother. Why are ISIS causing bother? Because of the inept peace keeping forces that were left behind after the last illegal war there. The current problem is as a direct result of the last illegal war...so why is it suddenly legal?
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Liviforever

Posts : 3435
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston

Re: Independence referendum

Post by Liviforever on Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:28 am

Liviforever wrote:
God help us all if the Tories get in again, which looks very likely given how inept Miliband is and no other party except UKIP remotely big enough to challenge them.

Here is a very good article that sums up what I am fearing after the next election, the Tory version of a fairer society our democratic NO vote could leave us with under a Conservative government.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/05/scotland-declines-only-blame-ourselves?CMP=twt_gu


So there we have it, this year’s Tory recipe for a fair and upright society: choose to hit the poor and the vulnerable; choose to intimidate those whom you deem to be scrofulous and impolite in their political views; choose to attack basic human rights; choose to allow ruthless big business to pay their workers buttons and sack them at will.

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Re: Independence referendum

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